S19 is taking BC Calc and will take the AP exam. Let’s assume he gets a 4 or 5 and that he can therefore place out of the first two calculus classes. He’s planning on a CS major, so he’ll need several math classes beyond calculus. What kind of experiences have your kids had with doing well on the BC AP, using the exemptions and going right into calc 3 or linear algebra? I’m sometimes hearing that it’s a mistake to use the exemption, that college calculus is harder than BC. And then the same question about AP Chem.
He’ll probably end up at Rochester or McGill, so school specific insights would be great.
It’s college-specific and sometimes even department-specific. There may be guidance on the college’s website, or he can ask before registering for classes.
Note that Rochester has a standard math sequence 161, 162, 164, 165 and an honors sequence 171, 172, 173, 174. It looks like they recommend students with a 4 or 5 on calculus BC to take 164 or 165 in the standard sequence, or take the honors sequence starting at 171 (or 173 in exceptional cases).
For AP chemistry, as a CS major, it does not look like he needs to take any chemistry or courses that require general chemistry as a prerequisite at either Rochester or McGill. If he does want to take additional chemistry or courses that require general chemistry as a prerequisite, he can use the old final exams of courses that he is allowed to skip to check his knowledge.
My question isn’t about the rules of the particular schools, which we had found, but about the practicalities.
I have been told, second hand but reasonably reliably, that in recent years kids from my son’s high school are finding that AP Calc classes haven’t really prepared them as well as a 4 or a 5 would suggest and that they’re better off taking Calc in college than relying on the AP exam to place out. I’ve also heard this about kids from other high schools.
But the old exams should be very helpful. Thank you.
For chem, you have to find out what class your son would take to fulfill his chem requirement if he got a 5, would it be something like chem 2 (ok) or organic chem (would avoid) or maybe not have to take chem altogether. Math is a little different because as ucb also hinted at, it’s far more important than chemistry for CS. Getting rid of requirements so you can take more advanced classes in math is really good esp if your son could be bored in his first year of math. However if you’re concerned that taking linear algebra or m/v calc or diff equ as a freshman is going to be too challenging given that he also has to adjust to college, then he might be better off taking the intro calc courses. One more thing, freshman calculus is typically weed out, so if he goes to a sophomore class, he might actually have less stress, a better curve as well.
Different school and course, but a relative of mine who also used AP calc to place higher regretted it. She said they teach intro calc differently in college and although she would have repeated material she knew, she felt she would have been much better prepared for higher level courses.
There is no one-size-fits-all answer. Depending on the college, intro calc/chem classes will be similar to AP classes or may be more advanced, covering more breadth/depth. Without looking at old syllabi/exams, nobody can say for certain unless they have familiarity with the college in question.
Ask your son’s departmental advisor or department chair. That’s what we did. Granted, we are talking about DE rather than AP for calc, so the experience had been a lot more college-y. The department said take the credit in our case. AP chem wasn’t required for a CS or a math degree and simply fulfilled a gen ed science. Definitely took that.
I would suggest your son ask this on a Facebook page for current students (not the newly admitted prospective students). I have heard the 140/141 at McGill is brutal, and that subsequent years are easier, but I don’t know that firsthand. There are lots of parents either looking for tutors, or are advertising their children as tutors in the Parents Facebook pages. Good luck!
DD’s experience was even talking to students and advisors of the same school, there were different opinions about this. She ended up taking old math exams that were posted by her math department and deciding for herself with the approval of her advisor. She skipped into calc II but added an extra recitation and did fine. She probably could have started in calc III, which she is finding easier than II, but YMMV depending on the school.
If your student doesn’t need any Chem, use the credit and be done. If it means he’ll need a higher level chem class instead, I would not skip.
Our S19 got a 5 on BC Calc as a junior and is taking MV at his high school right now. We aren’t sure yet what he will do and will discuss with his college’s math dept once he decides where to go. He’s thinking of being a math or physics major so doesn’t want to skip too far but also may not need to repeat. One school already told him that he should just move on to linear algebra but I’m leaning towards having him ask to see tests from the classes he could pass out of and see what he thinks. If he feels solid on the material, then he’ll move on. If not, he will retake MV. I really think it’s the only way to decide unless you can find someone from your high school going to the same college who took BC and got the same grade in the class and score on the test. Then, get that student’s perspective.
Back when my son started at Carnegie Mellon the CS department gave them a placement test. They said they didn’t care what grade you got on your AP, the question was what you actually remembered in August. My son had had a Linear Algebra course taught in the high school. My recollection is he took Calc 3 and some sort of Discrete Math, I can’t remember in exactly what order.
I would use the AP credit for Calculus and try to skip to Calculus 3/Multivariable. Speaking for my son’s current school, he heard some not so pleasant stories about the Calculus 1/2 sequence and how poorly taught it was. The higher level math classes were taught better in his opinion.
His school gave general education credit for a 5 in AP Chemistry only and no course credit, so students couldn’t opt out. I would personally not use AP Chmistry credit to opt out if General Chemistry is taught the same way as his college, where the first semester is an introduction to Physical Chemistry/atomic and orbital structure (aka baby quantum mechanics).
For CS majors, the important classes are Linear Algebra and Discrete Math, and for some classes like machine learning, MV Calculus. If you have a strong foundation from your AP Calc BC class and get a 5, I would advise to skip. But like everyone else says, it depends on the school.
At Berkeley, Calc 2 is a major weeder; my kid was thinking of (re)taking it but decided to skip. IMO he probably shouldn’t have skipped it, but so far there hasn’t been anything he has needed out of Calc 2.
My general recommendation is that if the student has AP credit that the college allows skipping courses with, and the student wants to take a course where the skipped course is a prerequisite, the student should try the old final exams of the course that can be skipped to make a more informed placement decision. (As reply #11 mentions, some colleges have their own mandatory or advisory placement tests to do this type of thing if they do not want to rely solely on AP scores.)
Otherwise, the student is just guessing, and the consequences of guessing wrong are undesirable – either wasting time and tuition repeating something the student already knows instead of learning something new, or struggling with the more advanced course due to insufficient prerequisite knowledge.
As a CS major, he is likely to need math courses that have calculus 2 / calculus BC as a prerequisite, so the try-the-old-final-exam recommendation applies here. But he is less likely to need courses that need general chemistry / AP chemistry as a prerequisite unless he wants to do pre-med* or another major in chemistry or biology or something like that, so he may not need to worry about this question with respect to chemistry.
*Note: medical schools do want to see enough pre-med courses in college, often not accepting AP credit for them, but often accepting more advanced courses if some are skipped with AP credit (but some dislike the common practice of repeating AP credit, which can be seen as grade grubbing). Since different medical schools differ in policies, that is a more complicated question that should be asked in the pre-med forum section if there is any pre-med intention.
For what it’s worth, my son took Calc AB in high school last year and did well on the AP exam. He is taking CalcBC now and will be taking the AP test. We had heard the same thing as the OP that it may be wise to retake all required Calc classes in College and not use AP credit. The schools and engineering program he wants to go to require 3 Calc classes, 4 credits each, and then several other higher math classes. We visited one college recently and he asked to sit in on their Calc 1 class. He was familiar with what they were studying, felt his High school Calc AB covered it and has decided use his 4 AP credits for CalcAB and as a freshman enroll in the Calc 2 class. A couple of the students he talked to also recommend reviewing Calc via Khan academy or other method over the summer before freshman year and said they also enrolled directly I to the second Calc class, it was work, it they did well and were happy with the decision to not take (and pay for!) the Calc 1 class.
Oops, sorry for the sloppy typos in that last sentence above. Just wanted to add that even if he does well on the AP Calc BC exam he’ll take in a few weeks, he will probably not take the 4 AP credits and go ahead and enroll in the university’s Calc 2 class.
My son was an honors math major who did his school’s honors sequence after a 5 on the first AP calculus course. Got credit for the AP class plus the college sequence. He then added/finished the CS major. His U usually had students start over with their version of calculus since trying to take the second semester meant most were not well prepared- the school had much more content than the AP version. AP is only a mediocre college version of subjects, not an upper tier one. A lot depends on goals. Using AP credits to meet breadth requirements frees up class time while taking the college’s versions of courses used for further study seems wise.
@ucbalumnus A number of students I know at Rochester who have gotten 161/162 credit for AP Calc BC have opted to take the 170 sequence (honors) rather than skipping ahead to 164. That seems to work pretty well.