My son is taking the BC Calculus test tomorrow. Although on practice tests he is doing well (4 or 5) and has done well in the class all year, he feels that he doesn’t have a strong enough handle on the subject matter and will want to retake calculus next year as a freshman in college. He plans to major in physics, and is taking AP physics right now (he feels much more confident in this subject matter). Does it make sense for him to repeat the course next year as a freshman if he ends up getting a 4 or 5 on the AP test? Again, I don’t care if he gets college credit (he has more than he can use), but about appropriate math placement. Thanks!
Actually lots of kids retake calculus if their schedule can afford it. The placement is a recommendation, but it does not bind the student to take the next level if they feel unprepared. College level calculus will be a review for your son, but at a much faster pace than in high school.
If your son scores a 5 on the AP, he is good to move on. Linear algebra/multivariable calc is usually next level and kids are fine if they scored a 5. I’m not so sure about a 4, it would depend on your son’s judgement what’s best for him.
At many colleges, he can ask to get a copy of an old final. If he feels he could ace that, he might not want to retake; if he feels it will be a struggle, many students opt to retake in college.
Instead of guessing about whether to take the advanced placement or repeat the course, he can make a more informed decision by trying the old final exams for calculus 1 and calculus 2 at the college he intends to attend. These may be available on the college’s math department web site, like https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/archives/exams .
If he is taking BC over one year, it is approximately college pace. However, if he had AB last year and the rest of BC this year, then he should be aware that college math courses cover material significantly faster than that.
Thanks. This is good advice and much appreciated.
Yes, some students do take Calc in college even if they took it in HS. I think they were all in my section when I was a freshman. :((
I agree no blanket answer here. Some colleges will give a placement test even if you have an AP exam score, because if you don’t do well on their placement exam you probably shouldn’t forge ahead.
My college calculus classes (intended for math/physical science/engineering majors) were very proof-heavy; D’s AP calc class had virtually nothing that looked like a proof.
Most don’t. Another reason why it might be advisable to retake in college.
If your son would feel more comfortable retaking calculus in college and his schedule/finances allow him to, then let him take calculus again (provided his school allows him to take it for credit–not all will if he gets AP credit for it). At worst, it will be a review of material he knows but will give him time to adjust to college courses (in terms of grading, tests, pace, etc) in a subject he is familiar with. If he finds it easy, it’ll be a GPA booster and will allow him more time to focus on his other courses, get a job, join a club, or just generally get acclimated to college in his freshman year. Retaking the course and finding it easy may also give him confidence in his academic and calculus knowledge and ability. And if he finds it challenging, then it’ll give him a chance to really learn the material before moving on.
How well he does on tests may not always be indicative of how well he knows the material (speaking from experience–I took physics in high school and college, 5’s on the AP Physics C tests, got A’s in every class, including college physics, and I didn’t understand any of it then and I don’t understand any of it now. I think I was just a really good test-taker with a good memory), and his desire to retake the course may reflect that. Or it may reflect that he doesn’t have as much confidence in his ability in calculus. Or he may just be saying this to take the pressure off for his AP test–it doesn’t matter if he passes or not if he’s planning on retaking the course anyway. No matter what the reason, unless you have a really good reason to discourage it (financial concerns, for example), I’d recommend supporting whatever decision he makes.
It is totally up to you if you want to get the AP credits or not. At my D’s school, she may withdraw any AP credits by the end of the first semester. However, she would not get the advanced placement by doing so as the equivalent class/credit would be removed from the transcript. In any case, it would not be a problem if you want to retake a class to forfeit the AP credit. Calc3 is a kind of tough even you do very well in AP Calc BC.
There are some more things for him to think about for a physics major (also applies to engineering majors):
a. AP physics B, 1, or 2 will not give advanced placement for a physics major. (However, they would be decent high school physics courses; high school physics is sometimes listed as a prerequisite for college physics.)
b. AP physics C is not always given advanced placement, because (1) college physics may be more math intensive (particularly when covering E&M), and (2) college physics 1 and 2 may include topics other than mechanics and E&M (e.g. thermodynamics).
c. College physics 1 for physics majors usually specifies calculus 1 as a prerequisite, and calculus 2 as a prerequisite or corequisite. So a student who starts math in calculus 1 usually must wait a semester before starting the physics sequence. Physics 2 (which generally includes E&M) usually specifies calculus 3 (multivariable calculus) as a prerequisite or corequisite. A student who starts in calculus 3 will complete it the semester before taking physics 2, which can be somewhat advantageous when multivariable calculus is used in physics E&M.
Many students repeat calculus in colleges. If there is any doubt in his mind, especially as a physics major who might need to take upper level calculus, I’d suggest he repeat it. It also not a terrible thing to have one class that is not as stressful to start freshman year with.
We heard great advice at an accepted students day from the undergrad dean of engineering. If you get your AP results and you’re surprised to see that you got a 4 or 5 - Don’t take the AP credit, take the course. If you felt like, of course, I knew the material, I expected a good score - take the credit and placement. It can be an advantage in engineering because 1. there are so many requirements, AP credit/placement gives some breathing room and opportunities to take other courses 2. As mentioned above- you can take other physics classes earlier. But if the student doesn’t feel comfortable with the material, they shouldn’t take the credit. Calculus is the basis for everything.
My D’s school gave placement for 1 semester of Physics from AP Physics C - mechanics, but not E&M. Once again, this was for engineering majors
It would still be preferable if said dean of engineering said “Here are [this college]'s calculus 1 and 2 old final exams for you to try before deciding whether to use your AP credit to start in a more advanced course than calculus 1.” A student’s own confidence level might not be an accurate indicator of how well the student is prepared to take the advanced placement.
Sr. S took AB jr. year; 4 on AP test. Because he wanted to do something with math in college, he took BC Sr. yr. He gets good grades in class, but it also turns out his teacher is scaling the tests. His college requires a placement test. My guess is that he’ll take credit for first semester calc, and start in second semester. OP: that’s probably no help to you at all – but know that we’re wondering about it all too.
First of all, there is nothing wrong with taking Calc again in college even if you did well on the AP test.
At the college my DD will attend, it says: “However, a student’s own perception of strength in mathematics is an important factor when advising students about math placement. For example, students who receive AP credit(s) for calculus sometimes choose to forgo the AP credit and retake the class(es) at TCNJ recognizing the faster pace and increased rigor of TCNJ courses. Others choose to accept the AP credit and do very well.”
I am an engineer and took calculus in HS, but retook it in college. At CWRU it says:
“Eligible students with credit are encouraged to attempt the next course in the sequence. Those who are concerned
about the strength of their background or would like to review the material of the first course in the sequence are
permitted to repeat the course if desired. However, students should feel comfortable attempting a higher level course
at the beginning of the semester. The first two weeks of each semester comprise the drop/add period, during which
students in higher-level courses may opt to change their enrollments to a lower-level course if they feel that the initial
course is too challenging”
So that seems like the best case…enroll in both and drop one of them. Most curriculums are built around starting with Calc I anyway so you would in no way be “behind”.
For most HS and College combinations, AP Calc BC is very similar to two semesters of college Calculus. On the other hand, it is MUCH less common for any AP Physics class to cover anywhere near the same material and Physics course for Physics majors or Engineers.
If he is considering a Physics major I would suggest a frank discussion with a few upperclassmen and an adviser to see if it is a good idea to take AP credit for Physics. Some people will advise you to take the credit because college Physics is a difficult class to get a good grade in - I always thought that was the wrong thinking for people who were going to need what they learn for future course work.
My D got 5 in AP Chem. CalcBC, and Physics C that got her skipped Chem1, Physics1, Calc1 and 2. She did struggle a little bit in Org Chem 1 & 2 and Calc3 in freshmen year and ended up with B to B+. She did great in Calc4 though. For Physics, she is going to take the Physics 2 in a CC this summer. If she does it well, she will finish all Physics requirement for engineering school. If not, she would not report the grade and take it again in the university.
DS skipped over a year of Calculus with 5s on the BC test, and was always glad he did. One big factor for him was the strength of his precalc classes, believe it or not. He thought Linear Algebra and MV Calc were a breeze because he said he learned most of it in precalc (and this was public school). So your S’s foundation may be something to consider.
As an aside, my DS’ situation makes me sad that so many schools are into accelerating and then doing two years of calculus, instead of providing a more rigorous and more well-rounded foundation in math.