<p>BDD on April 7th (I believe) (American Airline, you suck; 17 hour delay at O'Hare.)</p>
<p>General:
-Very nice and informative overall
-Peudo-gothic (wannabe) buildings didn't impress
-I like the McDonald, a lot
-Duke is like an Asian fest</p>
<p>Little things:
-Pratt building was very nice, but everyone was studying. ;-<
-50-60% of Pratt students are BME, ***
-Byron (sp) Center doesn't have a real name plaque near the front door (whatever that thing should be called)?
-At the Von Canon C Pratt meeting, that Indian guy's question about Duke Engineering ranking stomped the Dean (assistant?). So he started making up stuff (that is largely irrelevant) like total research expenditure.</p>
<p>I really don't know what to think about Duke.</p>
<p>I was not impressed either... Duke seems like a "new" university trying to fight its way into prominence with its energy and modern touch, but it produces a sort of halfway effect that is hard to appreciate.</p>
<p>Ditto to loveduke...final exams are like 3ish weeks away and we're all getting swamped with end-of-semester midterms/presentations/papers. of course we're studying. also, if you visited the pratt buildings, of course people there are going to be studying. it's like going to the library and being surprised the people there are doing work and not partying. when pratt kids want to have fun, we don't go to the engineering quad for that (usually). :p it's when we want to study that we go there.</p>
<p>also, i remember last year being impressed/unimpressed with campus layout and the way admissions deans acted and stuff and choosing based on that. now i'm realizing that was really kind of dumb. what really matters is simply: 1) do they have lots of opportunities in the major/subject you're interested in? and 2) would you be happy here/does the campus culture seem like something you'd be happy in?</p>
<p>whether or not you choose duke, i'd really advise you not to make a final decision based on what the buildings look like or whether or not a dean could/could not answer a question (if you're enrolled and you have a similar question, there are multiple deans, there are handbooks, there are advisers and professors to ask - one dean shouldn't be the deciding factor).</p>
<p>Everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion, but.....the "buildings didn't impress"?!? Pseudo-gothic? Duke's West Campus was mostly designed by Julian Abele, one of the first prominent African American architects, in the 1920s (although Duke Chapel was built from 1930-35). Abele also designed the Philadelphia Museum of Art, Harvard's library, and many mansions in NYC for the super wealthy. (Interesting tidbit: Abele never visited Duke's campus after its completion). The tower of Duke Chapel is inspired by Canterbury although its interior is more like Princeton's chapel and the trend of Gothic design in America at the time rather than medieval English. I suggest you take some Art History courses (esp with Bruzelius) if you think Duke's buildings aren't impressive. Duke is one of the nicest campuses I have ever seen, and this is one critique I don't understand. I can understand complaints about Dean's stupid responses.....although Dean Johnson rocks! (but is gone now :( )</p>
<p>Also, Duke seems like a "new" university because it is. At least relatively when compared to the Ivy's. As I said, it was mostly built in the 1920s and officially became Duke in 1924, whereas the Ivy's are much older.</p>
<p>Ivies are much older than Duke, but Yale and Princeton's gothic buildings aren't. Princeton went gothic only a decade or so before Duke, Yale slightly before and after Duke. It's all "pseudo" in this country.</p>
<p>Did you try talking to students? To be honest, those things you cite are a little nitpicky and make it seem like you were trying to find flaws with Duke before you even set foot on campus. Judging a school based on the response of a dean who has been here like less than a month and still is getting used to the school (Katsouleas has been here literally a couple weeks) is kind of ridiculous.</p>
<p>I keep getting comments about Duke's building style when I give tours and stuff too...mainly because I'm an Art History major so people with ANY knowledge like to drill me on how Duke apparently seems like an imitation of the Gothic style (ie, like you mentioned, Gothic wannabe).</p>
<p>My response generally is that this is DUKE. You can't look at the chapel on a beautiful spring night and not tell me you aren't amazed at how incredible it looks. Duke's architecture is Duke. It doesn't need analyzing, IMO, because when you're here and you look out your window and realize you LIVE here it doesn't even matter. You just love Duke.</p>
<p>My S is returning today from Duke. He absolutely loved the campus and especially the people he met. He found himself engaged in interesting conversations from number theory to religion with really bright and animated kids. He visited UNC and met with students there as well. His perception was that there's a world of difference between the two schools and he infinitely preferred Duke.</p>
<p>I asked him if being around so many bright young students was exciting or intimidating. He replied "Both". He then mentioned that he felt Duke was a great fit for him.</p>
<p>Maximus- We'd be very interested in hearing more of your son's thoughts on Duke, especially as he compares and contrasts it to UNC. </p>
<p>Your son is very fortunate that he was invited to Close Up, as he had a much better opportunity to interact with current students at Duke than those who attended BDD did. My son came away from BDD with his favorable impression of Duke intact, but the program didn't add much to what he already knew and sensed about the school.</p>
<p>LOL - reading this, I am starting to dread the fact that I volunteered to do the BDD forum for engineering this coming Monday :) Not sure what ranking question stunned whom (the fact that BME is 2nd ugrad, or that the school is in the mid-thirties overall, or...?) but I guess I'll need to make a cheatsheet for Monday...</p>
<p>nceph, I picked up our S at the airport around noon. He was stunned with the difficulty of choosing a college. He ruled out UNC because he didn't love the campus (too many roads through it etc.) and found the kids he talked to quite nice but ordinary. </p>
<p>At Duke he found himself surrounded by edgy brilliance and lots of Asians, lol. He loved the campus, the architechture, and the gardens but mostly felt a kinship to students and profs that awakened his drive and ambition. He spoke with a prof, in detail, about neuropsych, discovered a computer system that translated human movement into symphonic sounds and witnessed students in lab coats examining and weighing the contents of dumpsters for recycleable materials. The place is buzzing with imaginative projects and dedicated students. He loved being surrounded with the energy and could clearly see himself taking advantage of the opportunities. Duke Engage was another program that he thought was fantastic.</p>
<p>Now we have to weigh Duke against UMCP and the B/K schorarship. Still processing........money matters but is not everything.</p>
<p>Thanks for that report, Maximus. The different concentrations of brilliant students are what I would have expected to set the schools apart. There are a lot of very sharp, inspired students at UNC, but they're mixed in with a good number of less ambitious or more "ordinary" students. Overall a different academic atmosphere. I think it's a good thing when kids react very strongly for or against a school. My biggest fear was that my son would visit his top choices and declare that they all seem fine, with no preference. Duke is one of his top two choices. Williams is the other, and he's visiting next week. May 1st will be here before we know it.</p>
<p>This post was in no ways supposed to be a downplay of the excellence that can be found in Duke.</p>
<p>I only wrote down some things that were memorable. Of course, my day was filled with great/good/awesome experiences. When you remember moments, you remember the bad ones.</p>
<p>Lemme make some notes here in order to prevent further grievances. In all fairness, I do like Duke a lot.</p>
<p>
[quote]
General:
-Very nice and informative overall (no comment)
-Peudo-gothic (wannabe) buildings didn't impress (I grew up in Europe; so I was pretty used to Gothic structures)
-I like the McDonald, a lot (positive comment here)
-Duke is like an Asian fest (never seen so many Asians in one place, concentrated, outside of Cali of course. I am Asian so don't accuse me of racism)</p>
<p>Little things:
-Pratt building was very nice, but everyone was studying. ;-< (understandable, but definitely did not set a good mood)
-50-60% of Pratt students are BME, *** (surprised)
-Byron (sp) Center doesn't have a real name plaque near the front door (whatever that thing should be called)? (thought it was funny)
-At the Von Canon C Pratt meeting, that Indian guy's question about Duke Engineering ranking stomped the Dean (assistant?). So he started making up stuff (that is largely irrelevant) like total research expenditure. (the paraphrase: why does Duke engineering suck compared to its general prestige/ranking? [beside BME of course]; I can understand the difficult situation the presenter was in; there was no real explanation possible without downplaying his own school; but I did not like the fact that he answered the question with misleading and/or irrelevant statements)
<p>oh, as far as that question goes - a lot of it probably just has to do with the fact that pratt only has 4 types of engineering. 2 (bme and i believe ece though it may be meche) are quite good while the other two aren't great. i have no idea why the dean would get so stumped on that. i'm pretty sure offering less engineering majors means an engineering school will be ranked lower - especially when 2 of the 4 aren't nationally renowned.</p>
<p>The dean in question disagrees with the assessment above, by the way :) I asked him about it since I'm taking his spot in this coming Monday's BDD event and he categorized it as being asked about the rankings, stating what the rankings were and what the rankings were not.</p>
<p>I'd like more detail on what you consider to be misleading, because that's an extraordinarily serious charge to lob at a university official.</p>
<p>I think it's generally accepted that Duke's engineering ranking is lower than other programs because of its size. The rankings are largely based on the quality and quantity of research published and the general perception of prestige. With only 4 departments, it's hard to compete with the Illinois' in the country that have FOURTEEN departments. Obviously, IL engineering is more well known and has more publications because it's nearly 4 times the size! Does that mean going to IL engineering will afford you more opportunities because it's ranked higher? Yes and no. Since it has so many more types (although no BME), you have more opportunities to get the major you are truly interested in. Also, since it's engineering program is so large, TONS of companies will recruit on campus. However, if you are interested in one of the 5 major offered by Duke, I can assure you that 1.) the level of accomplishment by Duke professors is very similar (or higher than) to the level of accomplishment of Illinois/Purdue/UT-Austin/Umich professors, 2.) the students at Duke engineering are far more accomplished that many schools ranked ahead of it (e.g. IL, Michigan, Ga Tech, Texas, Purdue, etc.), 3.) the opportunity for research at Duke is greater than many of those large publics ranked ahead of it, 4.) the job prospects within those specific fields are probably better at Duke than those other schools, 5.) the professional school (law, business, med school) acceptance from Duke students is far greater, 6.) the engineering grad school acceptance is probably similar or better at Duke. Obviously, I'm not talking about MIT/Stanford/Cal Tech, etc when making this comparison.</p>
<p>Rankings only tell you so much. Even if Duke's four departments are rated 10/10, that's only 40 total. To beat Duke's cumulative ranking, IL's departments can be below Duke's level and be just 4/10 for 56 total. I realize that this is not how USN&WR calculates it ratings. I'm just saying that size is a large factor in engineering because people are more likely to know some faculty/research/publications from a university that is four times the size. So, the smaller school is it a huge disadvantage in research breakthroughs because there just aren't as many people. By the way, EE, ECE, ME, and BME are all great at Duke. I practically don't know any Civils, but they exist apparently. ;) I think there are ~10 per class.</p>