Be careful what you wish for! Need some advice...

Parents Forum
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<p>I'd really appreciate some help with a "problem" that has arisen in regard to S's applications. I believe my dilemma is similar to that of Curmudgeon and his D that was recently discussed in another thread on this site. </p>

<p>** Basic Info:** </p>

<p>Son attends a private Jewish high school. The school has less than 200 students and last year had its first graduating class. Top ranked students had acceptances at Princeton, Stanford, Amherst, Rice, Wash U, Cornell, JHU, Vassar, Emory, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UT Plan II, etc. Still, they are a new school so have less of a track record than many others. Plus, since the school is mall, there were fewer options for APs, scholastic competitions and awards.</p>

<p>Until this morning, my S's credentials looked like this: 95.6% UW (school doesn't weight but he has all A's); school doesn't rank but profile supplied to colleges will show he's first or second in his admittedly small class; has taken the toughest schedule offered with many "advanced" classes; got 4's and 5's on his three junior AP's - Bio, Lit, US Hist; will take AP Calc AB, AP Physics, and AP Lang in the spring; SAT 2's were 720 (Bio), 770 (US Hist.), 780 (World Hist); AP Scholar; National Merit Commended. </p>

<p>EC's are solid and keep him busy but nothing spectacular. Briefly..... heavily involved in theater as an actor/singer (7 productions); founded the first instrumental group (a jazz ensemble)at his school which is actually named after him (he plays the lead flute); poetry, short stories, articles published in various school, local publications and websites; about 60-120 hours per year as a volunteer in the community. Also involved in the Jewish community, synagogue and fluent in Hebrew. Interested in bio. In the summers took a non-credit microbiology class at Brown and a tough program in lab research at U Chicago where he earned 6.6 credits and a grade of A. Will have a reference from that professor. </p>

<p>** The Dilemma.....** </p>

<p>Originally, S had a 32 on the ACT, but only a 2020 on the SAT (cr 700, W 670, M 650). Because of the lower SAT, mom has been steering him away from top northeastern schools even though he likes some of them. They just didn't seem realistic. To make a long story short, son's SAT scores came through this morning. He had followed Xiggi's study plan which worked much better than the tutor we used before. SAT I's now look like this: CR 800, W750; M710 (2260) or a rise of some 240 points. We didn't expect this. </p>

<p>Fortunately for us, with a little belt tightening, we can get S through college without debt. We are concerned about admissions, not financial aid. My question is should we be adding different schools to the mix because of the change in SAT scores? Son is applying EA to Chicago. He likes the intellectual feeling of the campus, though is a little hesitent about the tough workload. One counsellor at school has been urging him to consider Harvard based on the strength of his essays to Chicago. (He's a kid who loves the life sciences and writing.)</p>

<p>Our original list appears below. We visited these schools and interviewed at the ones we could. The list is still too long and needs cutting! Son has trouble making decisions once you get past Chicago/Brown (#1,2) and Emory/Tufts/Amherst that seem to be his favorites! He thinks he'd be happy at any of these schools. Our initial thought was to apply ED II to Emory if he didn't get into Chicago. We felt this was the most realistic option given the fact he's legacy, and that we couldn't "gamble" on the low prospect of RD admissions at Brown or Amherst or even Tufts. </p>

<p>Should the change in scores alter what we're doing? Am we being realistic about what is now a match, reach, etc.? Should we look more seriously at one of the HYPS as an RD long shot if S wants to do that? And how do I make sure that my son still realizes that many of these schools are not certain even with his higher scores? Any suggestions would be appreciated.</p>

<p>BTW -- if our list looks like a mish mash, there are actually underlying factors that wouldn't be apparent to the casual eye: a Hillel with a certain level of activity, kosher meals for passover, and traditional services available or in walking distance on Friday and Saturday. </p>

<p>Reaches:</p>

<p>chicago (earned 6.6 credits there last summer)
brown (legacy)
amherst
Wash U
Rice (tougher to get in from Texas)</p>

<p>Match reaches:</p>

<p>Tufts
Wesleyan</p>

<p>Matches:</p>

<p>Emory (loves the CDC and other science internships) (legacy)
Brandeis</p>

<p>Safety matches:</p>

<p>U Rochester (this is his favorite of the schools less difficult to get into)
U Va. (legacy status so that makes us instate)
George Washington (possibly drop... we need to discuss...tuition is astronomical!)
Union (based on son's preferences, will probably drop)</p>

<p>Safeties:</p>

<p>UTexas (guaranteed admission under the 10% rule; will try for plan II)
Clark (based on son's preferences, will probably drop)</p>

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<p>Your son seems like a very strong candidate with a very balanced list. Since belt-tightening will be required, I would think more along the lines of making sure he has some Merit Aid possibles on his list. Rather than adding HYPS just because they are HYPS. Merit aid would be a good feeling for him, and would be nice for your pocketbook.</p>

<p>His list seems well-thought out and there are several very selective schools on it. If there is a HYPS school he really wants for the carefully thought out reasons he's already developed, go ahead and add it. But don't think you need to "aim higher" just for the sake of.</p>

<p>What a great dilemma to have! Look forward to seeing his choices in the spring; I predict outstanding choices and another Dilemma in April (if he decides not to go ED).</p>

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<p>Cami, I am admittedly not all that familiar with many of these schools, but my impression is that some of the safety/matches are probably now solid safeties, and the match/reaches can probably be considered matches. Is it true that being a legacy puts you into the UVA in-state pool? Just curious, as UNC-Chapel Hill doesn't do that (rats!), they just make legacy a tipping point. </p>

<p>And I'm with jmmom -- this is a solid list, and if he was happy with it before, I see no reason to aim higher just for the sake of it.</p>

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<p>cami215, take a dance around the kitchen! Where does he really want to go? Let him go for it! And there's always fabulous Austin.</p>

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<p>The list seems very balanced to me. I don't see the point of adding Harvard (stll a long shot) to the list unless your son really wants to go there. The change in scores is wonderful but they aren't out of this world scores even now (not meant to sound negative, just realistic based on applicant pool to the top schools on the list). The only suggestion I have is that I would not put in an EDII app at Emroy because that will preclude keeping RD apps in at schools such as Brown or Amherst that he may prefer (and he may very well get into Emory RD anyway) and limit his choices in the spring. (Geographical diversity issue may help him at the northeastern schools.)</p>

<p>Iderochi, yes, it is true that having a parent who is a UVa alum officially puts an out of state kid into in-state status. They say so clearly at admissions functions.</p>

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<p>I would not add Harvard.....I think he has an EXCELLENT shot at Univ of Chicago......the other app I would focus on is Brown...not sure how much more he prefers Chicago over Brown...but if his #1 is Chicago...then EA acceptance there will probably allow him to really trim his list....Chicago will know thru his summer program that he understands what it means to go there and he can do the work... he likes being in the city etc etc.....</p>

<p>I think he has a very good shot at Brown also......I say focus and finish don't add to your reaches......</p>

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<p>Class rank is overwhelmingly important in admissions. Given his class rank and his solid SATs, I think all of his current reaches are solid, reasonable choices. With a good application package, I think he's likely to get accepted to quite a few of them. I think Brown would be hard-pressed to reject a legacy with your son's "stats". Actually, if he prefers Brown to Chicago, a Brown ED application would be a very good "strategic" play, IMO -- a play that has a good probability of success . It also would nailing down an acceptance to a school that would probably be the most selective school he's likely to get accepted to when it's all said and done.</p>

<p>Assuming he's done the legwork to establish a record of interest at Emory, that should be pretty much a sure bet. In fact, he'd be a decent candidate for the Emory Scholars merit discount program. It has the ED app deadline, but is not binding. I think they use the Emory Scholars round as a sort of quasi EA program, to get high-stat kids hooked into the sales pitch whether or not they actually get money. I would apply to the Emory Scholars program regardless of any other moves. Because of the early deadline and the extra essay, I think it signals that Emory is more than just an afterthought safety. My daughter did that and then subsequently withdrew the app when she got accepted ED to her first-choice school. I think it's worth doing because it gets your app read early.</p>

<p>As for HYP -- he's "just another solid applicant". Certainly not a bad applicant, but nothing special in their applicant pools. Solid, slightly above mid-pack academically. If he really loves one of those schools, then applying wouldn't be unreasonable based on his stats, but I wouldn't be overly optimistic. It's hard to stand out at a school where the 75th percentile SATs are 1580. It usually takes your son's "stats" plus a specific, standout EC passion for an unhooked applicant. The problem is the quality of the EC passions. For example, you son has been in seven theater/acting roles. But, how does that stack up when Natalie Portman applies to Harvard and has lead roles in Star Wars movies as her acting EC on the application? Or, how does exposure to Washington politics stack up when Chelsea Clinton or Bill Frist's kids or John Edward's daughter is applying? That's why you can't get overly optimistic. Regular kids do get in, but you can't really bet on it.</p>

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<p>Cami, what does he want, because in the end that is what it will be.</p>

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<p>What nice news.</p>

<p>One thing that strikes me is that your son presents a very strong thematic application. He is clearly a verbal guy. And the performance in theater and music adds to that. Yet he likes life sciences...so it's thematic but not one-sided.</p>

<p>If his essays are really good he just might have a shot at HYP. He does have sort of an outstanding profile IF you wrap it up and IF his writing reflects the story his ECS tell. But I agree with everyone else. If he is worried about the workload at H, don't do that to him. If he loves loves loves Y or P, then go ahead and apply. For example, maybe he is dying to take creative writing at Princeton. </p>

<p>But otherwise, UChicago or Brown are fantastic schools and nothing to feel that an opportunity was lost around. I think Brown looks very good with the legacy. </p>

<p>I guess the question is - does he love UChicago enough to apply EA? Or will he now always wish he had tried for Y or P? If so, why? Just the name. Really not worth it. A specific program or feeling? Worth considering.</p>

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<p>Cami, congrats, he looks like a great candidate. I agree with everyone else, no reason to tack on HYPS just because - maybe have him go back and compare HYPS to his criteria about traditional services within walking distance, etc, see if he gets a strong pull, otherwise, as ALumother says, not worth it for the name.
I would have thought that Brown and Chicago would be polar opposites in some ways (curriculum-wise), but I'm not 17! I see a strong desire for intellectualism, and I think his list is strongly drawn for that feeling/</p>

<p>I think he would be a good candidate for Emory, and unless he just loves it, and really wants to be finished with the process early, I would counsel not doing EDII, with IDad's caveat about demonstrated interest at Emory - I think he will have some good choices. Can you do Chicago EA and Brown ED? Can't remember.</p>

<p>Also has he visited UVa and/or knows kids in UT PlanII - I think those are great safett choices, but could be very different in atmosphere from the smaller schools (particularly UT) - if he is good with that, then I think that dropping the schools, you list as possible drops, will save him a lot of work.</p>

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<p>I agree completely with Interested Dad: an ED application to Brown, where you have both legacy and the boost from ED as opposed to EA, would be a very very wise move . Also, as a parent of a recent Brown alum, I can't say enough about what a wonderful place my d. found it, and if your son is concerned about the intensity of Chicago's workload, he might find Brown more to his liking: plenty of academic challenge and brilliant kids, but a more laid back environment.</p>

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<p>What wonderful happy dance news for a fellow Texan. WooHoo! I agree with everybody, don't change just to change but no school is out of his admissions picture. Good hunting!</p>

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<p>Cami,
With Brandeis you have the good possibility of serious merit money, if you are at all concerned about belt-tightening. Also, they have been trying to re-balance their Jewish/non-Jewish student ratio so that the university is no longer overwhelmingly Jewish. I agree with many of the other posters that he has a very good list now. A word of caution about Brown, though. Although it has been stated that legacy status with those stats with an ED application would give him "a good probablity of success," be careful. A local student applying to Brown with stellar stats and EC's, and legacy status and an ED application was deferred this past year. She got into Harvard RD. When some further investigating was done at Brown, it turned out that there was a feeling at Brown that if a kid was a legacy applicant, that Brown felt they had them "hooked" so that Brown could defer them ED without the kid losing interest! It turned out to be Brown's loss in this case. Just a cautionary tale about the further crapshoot that is admissions.</p>

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<p>not sure I how/why he could equally like Chicago (core) and its inverse, Brown (non core). I understand the legacy tip, but has he visited RI? </p>

<p>Second I-dad's comment about Emory Scholars -- if he makes semi-finalist (announced in Feb), he's in RD -- kinda like an early-write.</p>

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<p>FWIW - Last year Brandeis had a "blue ribbon" application - apply early; hear early, but nothing binding about it. (Not early action either.) I think Brandeis would be a safety or safety match, rather than a match, for your son, and if he heard early he could eliminate some of the other safeties on his list - meaning either less applications or room for a few additional reaches if he decided to go that route. But, I don't know if the school is using Blue Ribbons again this year. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Brandeis is using blue ribbon apps, my daughter got one.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Second I-dad's comment about Emory Scholars -- if he makes semi-finalist (announced in Feb), he's in RD -- kinda like an early-write.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And, my guess, is that they early-write just about all the decent Emory Scholar applicants, even those who have no shot at the money. If I were an "enrollment manager", I would. </p>

<p>I didn't get to test that theory because my D withdrew her app in December. But, it's only logical.</p>

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<p>Bluebayou: I have never understood the idea that a student couldn't like a Core and a no-req school at the same time. I think a student could equally be looking at schools which feel intellectual (not to dredge up that minefield again) and feel that both schools, in different ways, foster a love of learning for its own sake--Chicago through the classic core, and Brown through the emphasis on exploring lots of stuff for its own sake. I could definitely see the same student liking both.</p>

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<p>I agree Garland, to me Chicago is directed learning whereas Brown is open season learning....if you will.....but both attract bright smart kids who want to go places....kids can definitely be attracted to both.....especially because in today's admissions world, one cannot truly have a favorite unless the favorite is a safety....I also suspect that the jazz leanings has this teen thinking about Brown......... after Frecklybeckly's experience I almost wonder if U Michigan Ann Arbor might be a strong addition but it might be tooo large.......and because it is Oct 24th I hesitate to encourage adding any school to a list... </p>

<p>I hope this teen has a really good feel for all the ground work and exploratory efforts that went into his application process....and is happy with his choices....I have no worries about his ability to handle the Chicago workload.....he has done well with such a small class size.. he is definitely someone that will thrive there....but he might really love the looseness of Brown and if an early app there will help, then that should be the true focus right now...given both, which would he really want.....if Chicago, then go for it...full tilt.....if Brown, then ramp up and make that app happen sooner than later.....</p>

<p>this school had great results last year, not sure if school size of 200 means over 4 years (50 kids each class) or 200 in each class....but the acceptance list for their first graduating class is very impressive and he is first or second for this year's class......obviously the guidance dept is getting the job done......maybe the Harvard emphasis is their own goal to get a Harvard admit on the school profile? (pls note, that comment is meant to be completely objective, not dismissive of poster's son) </p>

<p>Good luck Cami with the next few days/weeks......lots ahead .... enjoy!</p>

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<p>Why not U of washington? strong J population. Friends' kids at Chicago, Brandeis, all have only positives to say abt them</p>