This is what I have been wanting to say but couldn’t quite articulate. I’ve BTDT - all of it.
Also it’s so true about siblings. I would not have extra kids just so the first kid or kid has siblings. There are no guarantees there either that’s for sure.
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Between me and my 6 sibs, only one is single and without kids. So far, all the 3 niblings who are married have kids or are expecting (1). Our S and my nephew are engaged and haven’t stated their plans to us about having kids or not.
One of my friends has 2 kids. Both are in long term relationships and are in 30s. Neither wants kids. One is married and one is in long engagement.
I think a lot of parents would regret it in her situation. It’s just that very few would admit it.
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The net of this conversation seems to be that marriage is not a goal, but most hope their children find mates, and while we’ll all keep opinions about grandchildren to ourselves, some want them, some don’t, some don’t care.
We all just want our kids to be happy.
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I am not in this camp :-).
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I would be sad. As my mother used to tell me when I was a kid, everyone should have a kid just like them!
Personally, I find parenting to be both the most rewarding and sometimes frustrating thing I do, sometimes both on the same day! Wouldn’t trade it for anything!
It might be that marriage is not a goal for more mothers of sons than daughters. Marriage does offer a few advantages over simply cohabitating for women, who frequently sacrifice more in a relationship and have fewer options as they age.
Gosh I hope that I don’t have different thoughts regarding marriage or children for my son or daughter. Even though they are polar opposites, I try extremely hard not to have different goals because of their gender.
As I’ve stated before it was very important to me for my daughter to be able to support herself and I expected the same for my son. My parents had very gender specific goals for my sister and I. I’ve spent my life trying to break that cycle.
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I do think timetables are different for sons and daughters. Biological clock are ticking faster for women of childbearing age. And the fact that women need to take time off from their careers to have children and to take care of them at least in the beginning adds disadvantage to the situation. And it’s not easy to be a working mom. At some point working moms look at less demanding jobs to have flexibility.
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I’m just netting out what the responses here amount to. Many posters have mentioned that they would like their children to find mates, marriage or no. The responses indicate that, for many, marriage doesn’t seem to be as important as their children finding love/companionship. Obviously, some differ, but partnership rather than marriage seems to be the more important outcome for many.
Personally, I’d rather see my son married than not, but as long as he’s happy, I’m happy.
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Many/most women take only a short maternity leave (and husbands/male partners increasingly also take leave) when they have children. And not all women take less demanding jobs (in fact some men do).
The main benefit to marriage over having a long time partner is the legal benefits marriage conveys. That’s why it was important to legalize marriage for same sex couples. I know several people who never married or whose marriages ended in divorce who are very happily together with long time partners without benefit of marriage. They are aware of the legal issues.
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I have the same wishes for my son and daughter. I’d love them both to find wonderful mates, have children and have the economic wherewithal to provide a good life for their kids. But, my greatest wish is that they have happy lives. I would be more surprised if my son reduced his workload to take care of kids while my daughter wants to do so (and is planning for it). She knows herself well and wants to have kids and spend time with them (as her mother did). But, as @FallGirl points out, the female reducing her workload after childbearing and to raise kids is a societal pattern (with likely some biological underpinning) and not all couples conform with it. And some couples are same sex, so no trivial way of conforming to the old patterns.
I do think marriage makes things easier relative to living together (rights to see your SO in the hospital or make medical decisions for an SO, division of property, etc.). And, from an anthropological or sociological standpoint, a marriage is a bond between families and a wedding is in front of observers, usually family members, which in principle, was designed to create greater costs for leaving.
But, many of my contacts in Europe have long-term partners but don’t get married.
I would be extremely disappointed to not have grandchildren. Both Ds want kids so likely at some point. Most importantly though, I want them to be with partners that are their best friends and loves. D1 married last year and I think will start trying for kids in next year or so. D2 still in grad school with BF in another state, so we’ll see what happens there.
I also hope they each have more than one. I’m dealing with caring for parent and another relative I am personal representative for, and literally could not imagine handling this without my brothers. Of course I know that having a sibling doesnt guarantee that kind of relationship but recent events in my family have made realize that sometimes it’s hard to not have family to fall back on.
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Agreed, end of life decisions are so much easier when shared with siblings. Never easy, but better.
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Unless the siblings disagree.
In my law practice anyway, the most straightforward situations when dealing with big end of life parental decisions and subsequent post death administration are the ones with only children.
Whether or not someone has adequate emotional support when they lose a parent is a complex equation, it can be better or worse with siblings involved depending on the family dynamic.
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I kind of feel like my family is a study in marriage/no marriage, kids/no kids/only children.
My oldest brother and his (female) partner decided not to get married and not to have kids, for their own political and philosophical reasons. They’ve been together 30 years.
My other brother married and had kids super young, but got divorced and raised his kids on his own.
I am the youngest. I have an only child, born pretty late on. Thought I wanted more, but after he was born, we knew the family was complete. It ended up being a good decision because of the health issues my husband has had, it has been an awfully complicated and traumatic situation to raise a child in. Raising two … I can’t imagine.
Both brothers dote on our kid in their own ways. Thank goodness they have been able to help us with paying for college. Like someone said above, there are lots of ways to have a kid in your life even if you choose not to have them yourself. Older brother seems to have no regrets, and he has a full and happy life.
Kiddo’s cousins are older, so it was always more like he was the only child of his generation at family gatherings. I know he wishes he could have had a sibling, and has had predictable spells of loneliness. But he also knows there have been benefits. To his credit, he has done an excellent job of creating deep connections with friends, who I look at as family he has chosen. He shares and plays well with others. He has also sought out jobs and experiences (eg coaching, tutoring, etc) that have shown him he is good with kids and wants a future with children playing a role.
Fwiw, studies show only children have excellent outcomes overall: Only child benefits - show me the research! - ResearchAddict
Kiddo and I have talked about how “kids these days” (or at least his friends) feel about marriage and kids. He is the only one among his friends that says he wants marriage and children, and (ironically?) he is the only only child among them. And he is an atheist, so it is not a religious thing. His friends have a mixed set of rationale. Some of it is the guilt of bringing people into what they see as a world in existential turmoil. They see having genetic kids as selfish. Some of it is career, some of it is not thinking they can handle the spouse/parent job, some have bad relationships with their own parents and don’t want to inflict the trauma on their own children or a spouse. Marriage is an institution some don’t see the benefit of.
I’ll flip it around and pose here the questions his friends pose to him: with all of the world problems and so many kids who need functional, supportive, well-resourced families, why does he feel the need to bring genetic kids of his own into this world? What’s the point of getting married? What is the best contribution he can make with his life?
I come away from these discussions with him (in conjunction with the knowledge of my brothers’ well-lived lives) solidly in the “I trust my kid to make the best choice” camp. I don’t think reducing it down to rational, logical choices is really the way matters of the heart like these decisions are made, anyway, no matter how much “kids these days” may want to.
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Because if you are a smart, capable person with smart, capable parents showing a decent gene line–then having genetic offspring is a service to the world.
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Wow. I hope you didn’t mean this the way it sounds. I’m going to go with not because this is the kind of thing racial purists say. And I really don’t think you meant that.
There are plenty of smart and capable people out there who share very few of my genes. Love my kids, but don’t think them passing on our genetic material is necessary for the betterment of the world.
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How about because not everyone wants to or is capable of handling older children with multiple physical, psychological and cognitive issues? Babies are adopted quickly in the US. There is no surplus of infants available for adoption. Older children, and those in foster care, understandably bring many more issues with them to any adoption, which prospective parents may not feel prepared for. Even healthy children require an enormous sacrifice of time, money and effort by parents, so it is perhaps good that adults evaluate that decision carefully.
One of the purposes of marriage is to provide a stable long term commitment environment for both spouses and any offspring. I agree that if no children are involved, marriage is less important for adult couples. Presumably they understand the ramifications for things like social security benefits, medical notification, and similar legal issues. Or could understand if they chose to do so.
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