<p>For those of you who are waitlisted,either priority or otherwise, if you are taken from the waitlist and accepted to CMU, I have been told that you will NOT get any merit aid.</p>
<p>Although you will be offered a need based aid package, you will also NOT be able to negotiate a better deal as students who were accepted without the waitlist. I don't know why CMU discriminates against students taken from the waitlist regarding negotiations for aid or for merit based aid,but they do.</p>
<p>Isn't merit based aid for the "best" (ie highest recruited) students? And if someone is that "good" then they'll be accepted and not placed on the waitlist?</p>
<p>Only 8% of accepted students received merit aid taxguy..I think your thread is misleading. Furthermore, it wouldn't make sense for a waitlisted student to receive merit aid and an accepted student not to receive merit aid, face the facts (and yes, I was waitlisted to several institutions), we weren't accepted, and although I strongly believe we do belong in the university, we only fill the spots of the people that the university primarily wants. I would say it is quite generous that cmu is able to give so much financial aid based on fafsa, as many schools cannot even offer that to their waitlisted students.</p>
<p>You guys didn't read the rest of my post. CMU policy is NOT to negotiate with waitlisted students concerning other aid given by other schools. </p>
<p>Normally CMU has a policy of negotiating financial aid if you can show aid was given by comparable schools. This competitive policy doesn't apply to wait listed kids.</p>
<p>Goldentime also notes,"Isn't merit based aid for the "best" (ie highest recruited) students"</p>
<p>Response: my take is that if a student is accepted, whether off the waitlist or initially, aren't they the best of what applied and who accepted?</p>
<p>taxguy: while your reasoning makes sense, for them its simple. take it or leave it. they have other kids on the wl that are willing to take a spot without merit money if you're not.</p>
<p>"You guys didn't read the rest of my post. CMU policy is NOT to negotiate with waitlisted students concerning other aid given by other schools."</p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p>"Normally CMU has a policy of negotiating financial aid if you can show aid was given by comparable schools. This competitive policy doesn't apply to wait listed kids."</p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p>"Goldentime also notes,'Isn't merit based aid for the "best" (ie highest recruited) students' "</p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p>"Response: my take is that if a student is accepted, whether off the waitlist or initially, aren't they the best of what applied and who accepted?"</p>
<p>? </p>
<p>The accepted students are the best out of who applied, the waitlisted students are after that. Most students don't get merit at all. The best out of the accepted students do, because CMU wants them the most. People who were also accepted are accepted but not necessarily priorities. People who are put on waitlist are of even less priority. The only way merit would be distributed to waitlisters is if enough of the accepted student base was murdered that less than 8% of the accepted students were gone, in which case some of that rare merit would go to waitlisted (but surely accepted) students.</p>
<p>Waitlist means they don't need the student. They will take a student on waitlist, but they would be better off with someone they accepted. They aren't going to compete with other schools considering that they did not accept the student in the first place. If you are put on waitlist, it means you are not at the level of the accepted students, but you are close. If you have no other options or insist on it, they will let you in. But considering they did not really want you, they aren't going to great lengths to get you to attend.</p>
<p>I wouldn't call it discrimination. Such a broad definition would label the entire admissions process as one of the worst crimes ever perpetrated. Colleges choose people based on the information they recieve in the application. A waitlisted status is determined by this information as well. If it was an ideal world, everyone would have been accepted with a free ride. But that doesn't make sense considering space limitations as well as money ones. CMU has to spend its money wisely. If they believe a student isn't worth it, they will not spend money on them. They may not even change anything for accepted students.</p>
<p>"Waitlist means they dont need the student"
Agree.
"If you are put on waitlist, it means you are not at the level of the accepted students, but you are close."
Dont agree. I have a sneaky suspicion they either a) purposely underenroll to protect yield(otherwise why would they have a "priority waitlist" that no other school has.. its a method to see whose actually interested in attending and possibly ivy-reject) b) pwl some overqualified students who are probably not going to attend.</p>
<p>i personally got pwl and i dont think im less qualified. i got into two top 15 universities that are more difficult to get into. and dont say, well cmu is looking for a unique type of applicant. thats baloney. cmu has an admissions office that plays almost as sneaky as washu. they have two ed and a pwl, they give out decisions strategically at different times(its not random.. even AA will admit to that), and they match financial aid from "peer university" (peer in their eyes is all schools better than them. if you look at their peer u page, all the statistics show that cmu is the low man in the group).</p>
<p>I agree that there are often many reasons why a student is put on the waitlist, but generally they are either students that are not at the same level, either below the accepted students or students that they don't think will actually attend. All schools manipulate things and the waitlist is often a tool for that.</p>
<p>Still, there is more to it than whether a student is qualified because of their stats. I wouldn't be there if whether a student is academically qualified determined everything, and I will admit it freely. I think they can tell who a person is from what they do and what they say, and sometimes that person either a) plain doesn't fit or b) most likely won't matriculate because of various reasons (such as overqualified in your case).</p>
<p>Anyway, I think most everyone who applied is qualified. At this point, there is barely a difference between the many fine applicants CMU gets because they are all so intelligent/talented. However, CMU does have to make a decision and they see differences between students because they have to. So basically when I said level I meant the basis on which CMU decides, not necessarily my evaluation of people or their intelligence/grades.</p>
<p>I think there are other schools they consider actually... NYU for one. Basically most schools that attract students CMU wants and prevents them from matriculating. If they want a student, they want a student. Even schools like Lehigh which may be ranked lower are still consistent competitors for CMU and CMU knows that. I would have gone to Lehigh myself if I had not been accepted to CMU.</p>
<p>Gatorate writes, " I have a sneaky suspicion they either a) purposely underenroll to protect yield(otherwise why would they have a "priority waitlist" that no other school has.. "</p>
<p>As opposed to other schools who RANK their waitlist? Every school is protecting yield this year and Carnegie Mellon is too but we have never beeen known to do much to protect the yield nor advertise/market massively. Carnegie Mellon prides itself on being HOLISTIC in admissions so even if you have those great grades and test scores, if they do not think you fit at the university then they may waitlist you or even reject you. It is not an "automatic" formula of where the best stats get in. </p>
<p>Sending out mail at different times is in no way "gaming" the system. Many people were able to set themselves up for a rejection and harbor less intense feels as well as are less likely to appeal a rejection from shock. </p>
<p>People have been REJECTED from Columbia/Yale and have been ACCEPTED to Harvard. Would Columbia/Yale be yield-protecting whores too? All schools protect their yield and I am glad that you were able to get into schools ranked higher than Carnegie Mellon but that does not entitle you a 100% guarantee of admissions (especially when you have applied to Tepper which has shown even a 50% increase in applications). </p>
<p>Similarily, some people have been getting into CIT and waitlisted/rejected from Tepper but also getting into Tepper but waitlisted/rejected from CIT. Does this mean the schools are protecting yield and sharing data? Probably only on a miniscule level but for the most part no. If the school does not FEEL you are a good fit for it, then they will not accept you. Tepper has always been known to be the applicable sciences while Economics, for example, is theoretical. I believe that an essay highlighting skills necessary to succeed in business may push an underqualified applicant into Tepper.</p>
<p>Let's just say this: I left behind a lot of juniors who are now seniors at my high school. One of my very good friends does not have very good grades NOR test scores. He really wanted to get into Tepper and come to Carnegie Mellon with me and I basically helped him with his essays and his overall application. His stats were below the average in both test scores/grades but he was ACCEPTED. Now he has to see if he can actually afford the school since they gave him almost nothing (probably testing to see if he really wants to attend or not or letting him know that he was very lucky to have gotten in). The point is, HOLISTIC admissions is not some "farce". It exists and it is applied. Perhaps it is not prevalent in 90% of cases since most applicants likely to succeed do have those high test scores and grades but the application as a whole is definitely the thing looked at rather than just stats.</p>
<p>lkf725m : They are all still in the running. I have just given my daughter a 15 page analysis that I made that compares the pros and cons of each of these schools. She will read it and then will make her decision. If she feels that RISD is in the running, she will visit there again.</p>
<p>She won't,however, file the form to remain on the priority waitlist for CMU. To my surprise and also annoyance, she doesn't want to attend CMU since they don't really want her.</p>
<p>Right now she is leaning towards RIT and Cincinnati in that order. Personally, I liked Cincinnati more because of their fabulous coop program and less liberal arts required,but I will accept any decision she makes. After all, it is her life!</p>
<p>Taxguy, beyond the finanical aspect of the schools, shouldn't your daughter be the one to decide which school would best fit her academic needs? To evaluate which school she feels most comfortable at? The school that you find most attractive may not be the one where she would excel. </p>
<p>Of course, if she gets much more aid from a "lesser" (in her eyes) school, that tips the balance.</p>
<p>As for CMU, it makes perfect sense that they do not negotiate financial aid for the waitlist admits. I'm surprised that they offer any FA, to be truthful, because most schools allot all their resources to those they have accepted outright.</p>
<p>As for the waitlist v. initial acceptance pool: I disagree with those who says the waitlist people are those who aren't as good. If that were true, CMU would simply reject the waitlist group. My take: the waitlist people are those students who would excel but, for whatever reason, didn't completely persuade the adcom. So . . . yes, the regular pool consists of those deemed as most desirable, but the waitlist pool is also desirable. Maybe it was the difference of one unique EC that got one student accepted over an eventual waitlist applicant.</p>
<p>TH21, yes she did get that cool card. It was pretty amazing. In addition, RIT offered her some nice scholarship money. She likes when colleges really show that they want her,which is one reason RIT may be the front runner.</p>
<p>Momwaitingfornew, Yes, it is 100% my daughter's call. I just can't help gritting my teeth if I feel that she is making a mistake. However, it is her call all the way.</p>
<p>"I just can't help gritting my teeth if I feel that she is making a mistake. "</p>
<p>LOL, taxguy! I'm right there next to you. I'm happy with the schools my own daughter has narrowed her choices to, but I can't help thinking, "Maybe this school will be better . . . no!. . . that school . . . no . . . "</p>
<p>LOL, was the 15 page analysis single spaced, 8 font or double spaced 12 ? Any pictures? Just kidding, you know I enjoy your posts, TG and appreciate your contributions here. As always, best wishes and luck to your D in her decision.</p>
<p>Hardknox1149, LOL: Actually it was single spaced with no pictures. However, you did give me an idea. Maybe I should have included subliminal messages. For example, I could have had picture of smiling, happy kids for schools that I like, and pictures of depressed or stressed out kids for schools that I didn't like as much. </p>
<p>MY problem is that I actually feel ambivalent towards all of her choices. CMU was the only one that I had very little negative feelings about, and that is the one that she has the least interest in.</p>
<p>My H made the big spreadsheet and analysis report, too! Surprisingly, it did really bring things into focus. Then there was the maternal method: imagine that you will be attending a certain school and how do you feel (happy, nauseated, etc). I do think that my son is happy at the school he chose, even though it differed from my choice and also from my H's choice. Somehow, it all works out. :)</p>