<p>^^^ Stroke of genius.</p>
<p>The solution is to make all university education free. Need-blind everywhere. Let universities select on their own merit policies.</p>
<p>What, you say, too expensive? Funny, aren’t we the nation that just spent a trillion dollars on Iraq? We can afford to blow things up but not educate our workforce?</p>
<p>And before anyone starts whining about taxes… well, you’re going to pay the bill one way or another. Either by paying off absurdly-large student loans over 10-20 years, or just have it paid for in your tax bill. Which is simpler?</p>
<p>People choose to or not choose to use student loans. Taxes are mandatory. Loan usage and the amount one needs to take out should be the burden of one’s self. It is not anyone’s responsibility to pay for another’s.</p>
<p>Sent from my HTC EVO using CC App</p>
<p>
But most “super poor” people don’t get to go to schools that are seen as having considerable academic rigor due to the public school system being ****ed up-- poor districts have bad schools. Most poor people come from bad schools.</p>
<p>You have much, much more advantage in admissions coming from an average, cookie cutter middle class school district than someone coming from a school addressed in a speech from fricking Obama as having massive violence (known nationwide for its gangs) and educational issues and needing major reform.</p>
<p>Many more “super poor” people aren’t able to even have a chance at admissions at a top school than people who are middle class.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Uh, you do realize that the vast majority of Americans can’t afford to go to college without using student loans, right?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Someone obviously missed the day of government class where they talked about the whole “general welfare clause” thing. And the day of economics class when it was explained that, Ayn Rand’s fantasyland aside, we all pay for everyone else’s things, one way or another.</p>
<p>Don’t want to pay for education? Better be ready to pay for prisons.</p>
<p>There’s still people who dont have to takes any loans out. It is possible to leave college debt free or, at least, with very little debt. I’m not that lucky, I know I will have to take out loans myself, but I don’t think it’s completely fair for everyone to have to pay. I am aware of the “general welfare clause” and it’s not like tax payers’ money don’t already go to funding education to their state and federal dept of ed. Education is essentialy an investment so, yeah, people definitely need some start-up cash (loans). Nonetheless, it is up to the individual to decide how much they are going to invest through the use of loans.</p>
<p>^ Those people are in a minority. Many people still do.</p>
<p>We’ve been paying for things for others for well over half a century now, it’s nothing new.
We’ve paid for public education, and let the US Higher Education model help some, and wreck some.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My dad doesn’t do trial cases, unless he does pro bono. He’s a real-estate lawyer, which as you might know, is in the tanks right now, has been for several years. And a lawyer can’t just all of a sudden switch into personal injury or something “more lucrative”.</p>
<p>As well as… you’re taking 15k in loans? Then I’m assuming you’re not going to a state school. That’s your choice. I can’t afford the school that i actually wanted to go to because that would have meant 30k+ in loans per year, so I’m going to my state school, which is the most affordable school available to me and I’ll still have 10k in loans per year. I know that a lot of people have to take out loans. It is the real world. But I don’t see how you can be complaining about having to take out loans unless you’re going to an affordable school.</p>
<p>But I don’t know your actual situation. And in all honesty, at least you’re in a middle class family. That right there gives you the advantage of having parents who have supported you throughout your education, which would potentially make you do better in school, and potentially earn more scholarships. A lot of poor people don’t have that backing. I do, but I’m unusual. My parents have made a lot of sacrifices for me and my sister.</p>
<p>
This. Isn’t. True. Truly poor people have trouble paying for just their housing and food. They have zilch, zero, no money to put aside to some college or in savings. The middle class, has a comfortable life style, and if say they got rid of a few things, started saving on the groceries, bought less name-brand, they’d have money to set aside, even if it’s not much.</p>
<p>I have no quandries with the middle class or the upper class. I used to be a part of the middle class and I have always been surrounded by upper class people, but to compare someone’s ability to pay for something who is poor to that of someone who is middle class… It just doesn’t equate. Someone in the middle class can more than likely afford their local state school and if they do decently in school, they’ll probably get their state scholarship which makes it even cheaper. A poor person doesn’t have that type of money ever. That’s why financial aid is so critically important.</p>
<p>But seriously… you middle class people complaining about being ignored… what schools are you going to? Are you going to your dream school that isn’t really as affordable as it could be or are you going to a school that isn’t necessarily your top choice but will give you good money and/or has low tuition?</p>
<p>For me… everyone’s just proud that I’m even graduating. I’ll be the second out of 11 grandchildren and the first to ever go to college… I’ll probably be the only one of the grandchildren to go to college.</p>
<p>Okay, how about we start helping list some scholarships available for middle class families with no disposable income or no money saved for college. Then this thread will be helpful.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Okay, I agree with you that a family who falls barely below the line and gets need based aid and a family who falls barely above the line gets nothing is completely unfair. However, realize that there are some poor people who truly need the aid, and even with the aid it won’t pay for everything, and those people would still need to cover other costs. You mentioned earlier that it would not be fair for families like yours to not get any aid, even though your family and a poor family would have the same ability to pay for college. Yeah, that’s not fair.</p>
<p>Light was shed on the problem with the middle class when the markets started going down: people were getting mortgages for houses they couldn’t afford, were getting expensive cars they couldn’t buy outright, were spending too much and racking up too much debt. Obviously this isn’t everyone and isn’t limited to the middle class, but most of the middle class people I know either have college savings accounts or don’t because their parents spent too much and have way too much consumer debt. This nation needs to step back on consumption and step up on production, so everyone can have what they’re entitled to as human beings and citizens of a country that is able to provide for them.</p>
<p>AUGirl, I will be going to my second choice private school. There isn’t any reason for me to go to a state school, they are the same cost as this private after my academic scholarship. I can’t go to my first choice because I cannot afford 50k in loans per year. They meet “full-need,” but they say I don’t need anything. It’s a really complicated story, and I’m not going to get into it. So I’ll take what I can and go to a lower level school that I can afford. </p>
<p>And I’m out of this thread. Whole bunch of overly-idealistic liberals in here.</p>
<p>
Doesn’t being liberal mean “being liberal with money” in the sense the word is now used? Isn’t that what you’re trying to advocate? And you are clearly grounded in nothing but fact when you complain about colleges not caring enough about the more fortunate.</p>
<p>Also, I’m not a “liberal,” that entails several things I disagree with. I’m a socialist, say it right.</p>
<p>I’m not a liberal. And like I said, I don’t know your situation.</p>
<p>I’m actually quite conservative and don’t think that everyone else should pay for my education. That doesn’t change the fact that college is pretty darn expensive. I’m not a fan of welfare as I know so, so, so many people who abuse it.</p>
<p>I think we can all agree that loans suck, but you gotta do what you gotta do.</p>
<p>I find the middle class sense of victimization (in relation to the poor) pretty annoying. The working poor are in very risky situations. An injury, illness (including among family members), layoff, or any form of back luck will quickly put a working poor household into poverty. A middle class household still would not be safe if these were to happen, but they still have more security.</p>
<p>Let’s remember that the CC poor students who go to selective schools with big endowments constitute a very small proportion of poor students. Poor students who can go to college usually have to go to “low tier” schools or go the community college to state university route, and often still graduate with debt.</p>
<p>^ What about the poor people Mathemagician brought up who only barely fall below the line to get aid? What about the middle class people who have no extra money for college?</p>
<p>There isn’t a “financial aid line” like this:</p>
<h2>NO AID</h2>
<p>FULL AID</p>
<p>Rather, financial aid is an assessment based on your case, so if one person is making a little more than another, they will likely have to pay just a little more.</p>
<p>^^^I can relate to the illness idea. My dad had a heart attack when I was in tenth grade and we didn’t have health insurance. Heart attack+no insurance=major debt. =/</p>
<p>But college isn’t free. And people should realize this. It sucks. But you can’t rely on others to pay for it. You have to make provisions that allow you to attend. Some people join the military (like my dad), others end up not going to college at all and getting a job (like my mom), and others take out heavy loans.</p>
<p>^^ I’m talking about grants and eligibility to apply for certain scholarships (Gates, Questbridge, Simon…)</p>
<p>Doesn’t Questbridge have a “soft” line, where you can apply no matter what your income is, if you can show that you’re in need? Don’t know about those other ones you mentioned.</p>
<p>^[QuestBridge</a> National College Match - Selection Criteria](<a href=“http://www.questbridge.org/cmp/criteria.html#Financial]QuestBridge”>http://www.questbridge.org/cmp/criteria.html#Financial)</p>
<p>"Some of the factors we use to assess financial need include:</p>
<p>Annual household income: Most College Match scholarship recipients have come from households earning less than $60,000 annually. If you come from a household earning more than this amount but still feel that you have faced economic hardship, there is room on the application to explain your situation.</p>
<p>Additional information about household circumstances such as:</p>
<p>Number of people in the household.</p>
<p>The cost of living in your area.</p>
<p>Whether your family owns a home and/or any other properties, a business or farm, or other substantial assets worth more than $10,000.</p>
<p>Other financial commitments, such as medical bills or support payments to family members outside the United States."</p>
<p>Rich people have problems, too.</p>