Beloit vs Lawrence- thoughts?

Parents Forum
1

<p>At the moment I am trying to decide between Lawrence and Beloit- both are excellent smaller liberal arts schools in the midwest. Money isn't a factor, as I have recieved tuition remissions/scholarships at both schools.</p>

<p>I am considering doing a fair amount of work in the sciences (pre med) but I am not really sure what I want to major in (I might do something crazy like spanish or philosophy). </p>

<p>Specically, I am wondering about the quality of the academics- I had a chance to visit both schools and have a general feel of the campus. However, I want to make sure I am recieving the best education possible while still "standing out" during my time as an undergraduate.</p>

<p>I would appreciate any input or opinions comparing the two institutions- thanks!</p>

2

<p>My brother went to Lawrence, and he really liked it. He spent a number of years abroad after college due in part to his study abroad experience at Lawrence, and now he's a lawyer back in the US. He still keeps in contact with some friends from college. I don't know anything about Beloit, but my brother liked Lawrence a lot. He wasn't very academically-focused in high school, but today he reads a lot, teaches courses at law conferences, has had letters published in The Economist, and overall seems quite intellectually active.</p>

3

<p>My son was involved in tutorials with professors during his freshman year at Lawrence. They have a huge focus on meeting individual needs therefore, they work with you in changing mid-stream if you need to. I don't know anything about Beloit but have heard good things as well. That said, my son couldn't be happier then where he is.</p>

4

<p>My son spent two years at Lawrence. He felt the teaching and relationships with his profs that he experienced at Lawrence were outstanding. (This included science classes) I have heard that Beloit is also a wonderful LAC; however, from a location standpoint, Lawrence is in Appleton, a small city that enjoys a very high quality of life.</p>

5

<p>Carolyn's D attends Beloit; you can PM her.</p>

6

<p>No need to PM me, I'm here. :) My daughter looked at both Beloit and Lawrence. Both are excellent schools, and truthfully I would have been happy to see her at either one. </p>

<p>She has had a wonderful experience so far. I think Beloit's biggest strength is the amazing interaction between the faculty and students at Beloit. I know that most colleges talk about that, but I have been very impressed with my daughter's experiences so far. Her professors are truly her friends, and have gone out of their way to encourage and support her, and offer her opportunities without her even seeking them out.</p>

<p>I think, however, that Lawrence has a similar faculty-student strengths, and just as strong overall academics, so I would not worry about one being better than the other in this regard at all.</p>

<p>Invision, I believe I already answered your questions about pre-med at Beloit on the Beloit discussion board, so if you haven't seen the answer there, you might want to check - the reply is based on information from a friend of my daughter who is pre-med at Beloit. She has been very pleased with the individual advising she has received in the program, and is quite challenged. </p>

<p>Really, I think both are great for pre-med. Beloit will be even better when the new $50 million science facility opens in a year. </p>

<p>Some of the key differences you might want to consider:</p>

<ul>
<li> Distribution requirements: At Beloit, you need 2 courses in each of three divisions (humanities, social sciences, science & math). That's it. Since you'll be taking science & math classes as a pre-med, it translates to 4 courses. You do also have to take a course designated as "writing to learn" and an interdisciplinary course, but they can be the same courses as you use to satisfy the overall distribution requirements. No foreign language requirement.</li>
</ul>

<p>Lawrence requires 7 courses among different divisions, plus 1 diversity course, plus 4 "competency courses" including a foreign language.</p>

<p>Some people prefer Beloit's more flexible curriculum - makes it fairly easy to double major. Others prefer Lawrence's more in-depth GE requirements. </p>

<ul>
<li>Lawrence operates on the tri-mester schedule. Beloit on the semester schedule. At Beloit, a full schedule is four courses a semester, or 8 courses a year. At Lawrence, you'll take three courses a tri-mester, so 9 courses a year. That's four extra courses over the course of four years. </li>
</ul>

<p>Again, some might prefer the faster pace of the tri-mester, some the pace of the semester schedule. For some, the chance to delve deeper into each course on the longer schedule is preferrable. Some people may prefer to take more courses overall.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Appleton is definitely a "cuter" town then Beloit. But it is a long drive to a major city from Appleton. Beloit itself doesn't have much to offer, but you can be in Madison, a great college town, in about 40 minutes, and Chicago in about an hour and a half. </p></li>
<li><p>Beloit students tend to be a little more quirky than Lawrence students - you'll see more piercings, etc. There's a lot of creativity on both campuses, but at Beloit you're more likely to encounter a group of students riding unicycles dressed in costumes for a theme party at the Beloit Science Fiction Club dorm. Lawrence tends to attract a bit more "middle of the road" students.</p></li>
<li><p>Beloit will have a brand new state of the art $50 million science building next year. Beloit also has a health studies minor. Lawrence has great science facilities, too - really I thin</p></li>
<li><p>It's colder for longer at Lawrence. That's saying something in the dead of a Wisconsin winter. :)</p></li>
</ul>

7

<p>Appreciate the above posts! We're also in the midst of a Lawrence/Beloit connundrum. My impression is that there is a bit of an intellectual edge to Lawrence in the humanities/social sciences. And for a string player, the orchestra, should she get in as a non major would be a great plus. Nice town/school integration as well. My D is nursing some disappointment at not getting in to some higher reaching schools, and thought she saw a bit of what she wanted at Lawrence. And it seems Lawrence students go on to do some great things.</p>

<p>But we've got a better financial aid package from Beloit, prefer the schedule, and more importantly, love the general sense of creative optimism that seems to exist at Beloit. And it is a closer drive, just down the road. </p>

<p>Are we making too much out of this perceived edge at Lawrence? </p>

<p>To make things more confusing, her twin sister is trying to decide between Beloit and Puget Sound, and they don't want to go to the same place!</p>

8

<p>Re: twin sister. I grew up a short drive from Beloit and now live in the NW; all else being equal, the quality of life experience at UPS is hard to pass up. It is like living on vacation.</p>

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<p>My son also had bot Beloit and Lawrence on his preliminary list; but in the end, he did not apply to Beloit (I'm not sure why). He is at Lawrence now, and he loves it a lot. I don't know if I can add much to Carolyn's thorough analysis and to other parents' accounts... maybe, from the pow of our family.</p>

<p>DS likes the trimester schedule. He is a bit ADD-ish, and it's much better for him to have just 3 different subjects at a time; on the other hand, the 10-week term does not allow him to wander around. He is a Physics major, and we are highly impressed by the quality of the department and the atmosphere there (students having chats at "departamental teas" with professors, getting invited to prof's homes, going for weekends to Björklunden - the estate on Lake Michigan). The science facilities are new and well-equipped, and the department has grants for research. I don't know about other science departments, but the Physics department is very impressive. In addition to traditional "sciences", Lawrence also offers neuroscience, cognitive science and "Interdisciplinary Major in the Natural Sciences", which might be of interest to a pre-med student. There's also "Biomedical Ethic", which may be attractive to a student interested in Philosophy. It's also possible to switch to Nursing or OT, and there are grants for summer internships for pre-meds. </p>

<p>The Philosophy depatrment is also pretty good, and after taking a couple of classes, DS is thinking about minoring in Philosophy, or maybe even taking on a Phil. major. I guess, the "Biomedical Ethic" major grew up from the collaboration berween philosophers and science departments at Lawrence.</p>

<p>The interaction with the professors is amasing, I never thought our introverted kid will be so involved. He usually avoided contacts with the teachers at school, but it is different at Lawrence. The professors don't hesitate to contact the students/ either. When DS's plane was late, he did not show up at the first day of classes. When he arrived on campus in the middle of the day and started writing emails to the professors, he found that two of them already emailed him, asking "what happened?". The overall atmosphere at the university is pretty intellectual, I was amased when the audience applauded to the reference to Lawrentians as "nerds" by a speaker. But of course, there are parties, too (and students in weird clothes on campus).</p>

<p>Can I find any negative things about Lawrence? Well, lemme think... first of all, the limited course offerings, some courses are taught in the alternating years - but I think that it is the same at any small college. Second, the location. Appleton is a nice city, but there are no direct planes to many locations. That is probably no problem for the midwestern families, but we live in NJ. I imagine that if DS were at Beloit, he could take a bus to Chicago and fly from there (I don't know for sure if there is a bus, though). As it is, the flying home is more complicated and more expensive.</p>

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<p>Great Lakes Mom, These are both wonderful schools, and I honestly don't think that either has an "intellectual edge" over the other. They do, however, have somewhat different approaches to the curriculum, with Lawrence's being a bit more traditional in terms of distribution requirements, and Beloit's being more flexible. Just as Marmot's son has enjoyed his relationships with the faculty at Lawrence, I can't say enough good things about how my daughter's teachers have been mentors and friends to her - and she's just a freshman! In short, the differences between these two schools are subtle, but many kids will have a "gut instinct" reaction that one or the other is the place they should be. If the money difference is manageable, I would go with the choice your daughter feels more comfortable with, but not because either school is far superior to the other.</p>

<p>Marmot, Glad to hear that your son is enjoying the philosophy department. We'll be visiting Lawrence with our junior son who's interested in philosophy this summer. He also plans to apply to Beloit. :)</p>

<p>At the risk of sounding like a booster, a few other things to note about Beloit:</p>

<ul>
<li>There is inexpensive and frequent bus service to both Chicago airports. </li>
<li>Beloit offers 40 majors. None has more than 10% of the student body in it. My daughter loves how she has friends who are all following their own passions - from geology to theater to creative writing to psychology to pre-med. Because Beloit's curriculum is very flexible, it's also very easy to fit in courses and subjects in areas that you just want to try. And, Beloit has some amazing choices for a small school -- can't think of many LACs where you can take courses in Ancient Egyptian Hierglyphics and hungarian!</li>
<li>Beloit has two wonderful museum resources on campus - the Wright Museum of Art and the Logan Museum of Archeology. Both bring many speakers and exhibits to campus that many school schools don't attract. (Obviously the conservatory at Lawrence attracts world-class musicians, although Beloit does get its share as well).</li>
<li>Beloit also has a very unique program called the Center for Entreprenuerial Leadership. This center funds students who want to start their own businesses. For example, this year a group of students launched their own record label, and they have just produced their first CD, all underwritten by the university. </li>
<li>I'm sure Lawrence must have a similar program (not sure though) but Beloit also has a program called the Venture Grant, which funds individual student projects. Additionally, they offer grants for students who are doing internships for non-profit organizations. My daughter, for example, lined up a great internship this summer at a local non-profit in our home town. It is unpaid, and she was going back and forth about whether to take it. She mentioned it to one of her professors who helped her apply for and get a grant for doing the internship with a minimum of hassle. </li>
<li>I'm sure this is also true at Lawrence, but my daughter is happy with the career services office at Beloit - my daughter has found that there are a lot of internship opportunities (and they have cars that students can borrow to go to internships), and she likes that she can get credit for them as well. They also hold events every year where alumni come back and discuss what they did after graduation with various majors. And, every fall, they take all the sophomores off campus for a weekend retreat to discuss their majors and career plans.</li>
<li>I'm sure Lawrence also does something similar, but one of the things I really liked about Beloit this year is that they bring all of the freshmen to campus a full week before anyone else arrives. The freshmen start their freshman seminar classes during this week, meet with advisors, and just settle into campus life while having the whole campus to themselves. It really made for a very nice transition.</li>
<li>One other difference between Lawrence and Beloit are the freshman year seminars. At Lawrence, it is more of a great books approach, and everyone takes the same course. At Beloit, students choose from among various interdisciplinary seminar topics, and their seminar teacher is their advisor for the first year.</li>
</ul>

<p>Really, the bottomline is that Beloit AND Lawrence are both wonderful places. Some students will feel more comfortable at one or the other, but all students will get a great education at these two schools. So, again, if the money is managable, I'd go with the school your D1 feels more comfortable with, and not worry too much about it. :)</p>

11

<p>Interesting to hear so much about two colleges I never considered- we're UW Madison types. The weather in southern Wisconsin, bordering Illinois, is not that much different than in the Fox River Valley so I wouldn't use that as a factor. Both cities are small, Appleton being nicer but you would be spending your time on the small campuses. Choose based on the academics and other good information here- and don't regret your choice. Good luck. BTW, there should be enough to do within the college/campus that distances to other cities are irrelevent.</p>

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<p>Just dropping in to further boast about Beloit's new science center, designed in part by my own dear father...reason enough to choose Beloit! :).</p>

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<p>Both excellent choices and I wouldn't give the edge to either one based on academics. However, if your daughter wants to continue to pursue her violin studies at all and hopes to play in the orchestra, Lawrence is a better choice.</p>

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<p>I agree with Shennie on that one. Lawrence would be a better choice for anyone wanting to seriously continue music who is also looking for music performance opportunities. </p>

<p>There is plenty to do on both campuses -- that is one of the pluses about both schools, in my mind. They are highly residential, and don't clear out on the weekends. But my daughter does enjoy going up to Madison with a few friends for the occasional concert, shopping/dining on state street, and just to get off campus once in a while.</p>

<p>But wis75, speaking as someone from California, every extra degree of cold matters. :LOL:</p>

<p>Advantagious, the new science center looks beautiful. I will think of you and your father when it's open and we tour it for the first time. :)</p>

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<p>Thanks Carolyn, I'll pass that on. I looked at the renderings on Beloit's website and I'm pleased to note that not only does the building look quite in the design spirit of my father and his colleagues, but it is also a Green building. My father has also been a (pretty large) part of the science centers/to be science centers at Grinnell, Wabash, St. Olaf, and Earlham, to name a few. It's like a who's who of small midwestern LAC's!!</p>

<p>Sorry to hijack the thread :).</p>

16

<p>I don't know what Beloit is doing with Green buildings, but was quite impressed with St. Olaf's sustainable goals and building plans. Good for him! Will think of you, advantagious, when I finally set foot in that science center. </p>

<p>Carolyn, thanks for all your input on centers and so on at Beloit. I had no knowledge of any of this. In my area, Wisconsin, both schools have slightly different groups of adherants, and it is some of those subtle differences that I'm trying to put my finger on. </p>

<p>Shennie, you are right about music quality at Lawrence. The D in question will be playing regardless at Beloit, to keep a scholarship, tho in Beloit might be the front row, and at Lawrence, possibly toward the back of the section. Both have advantages, keeping skills while exploring new things, vs building skills. </p>

<p>Marmat 103, it is this sort of story that I hear about Lawrence, over and over that intrigues me. It seems there are great stories out of both places, but I especially like hearing about the reticent kids who start to shine! </p>

<p>Girls are returning from a school trip, and we'll have some interesting weekend discussions with your insights. And finalize a decision. Thanks!</p>

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<p>I especially like hearing about the reticent kids who start to shine! </p>

<br>


<br>

<p>Again, not to say that Beloit is better than Lawrence -because I really believe they are both amazing schools-, but I want to chime in one more time about my daughter's experience this year (gosh I am beginning to sound like those parental posters who think their kids school is perfect ;)) My daughter was a hardworking student who was always just outside of the "top" student tier. She was also always a bit on the shy side, not one to rock the boat, or even seek out help unless she was desperate. Teachers always said what a "good kid" she was, but no one ever took her under their wing, or particularly singled her out for encouragement. </p>

<p>At Beloit, the attention she has received from faculty in her freshman year has surprised and delighted her. Suddenly, she has teachers meeting her in the post office and inviting her out for coffee or dinner, teachers stiking up conversations with her about her plans and interests, teachers who really seem to care what her opinion is about things, and teachers going out of their way to offer her opportunities that she would NEVER pursue on her own (she's just not that kind of kid), She cracks me up when she says things like "Larry thinks I should go on his study abroad trip to Estonia and Morroco but Scott thinks I should do the arts in Chicago program." Who are "Scott" and "Larry" - technically they're her teachers, but she considers them her friends. This is the same girl who never wanted to "bother" her teachers in high school. She has truly blossomed this year, and that, to me, is worth the price of admission right there. </p>

<p>One of the reasons I think Beloit and Lawrence are BOTH awesome places is they are places that "fit all sizes." Kids who were at the top of the high school academic world can find plenty of challenge at both schools, but kids who were just out of that circle also can find mentors who will help polish them so they too can be superstars. My son has the stats for much more "selective" schools, but I would be happy if he ends up at either Beloit or Lawrence because I know that he'll shine even brighter when they're done with him. I won't consider it a "let down" if he chooses one of these two schools - just a good choice.</p>

<p>Really, you can't go wrong with either school, so pay attention to the small things that matter most, and trust your daughter's instinct about where she "fits." These really are two schools that deserve a lot more attention and respect, in my opinion. And, I'm not just saying that as a very satisfied parent, either. ;)</p>

<p>Just want to add that small LACs are not right for everyone, but they can be amazing places if given half a chance. Lawrence and Beloit are also not the only wonderful places like this - schools that may not have the "name" but definitely can provide a wonderful experience on many levels.</p>

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<p>Whatever they put in the Wisconsin water, it should be bottled.</p>

19

<p>I just wanted to take a brief second to thank everyone for their opinions and experiences- I am seriously considering both schools at the moment, especially after the detailed information that carolyn provided.</p>

<p>Tommorow morning at 8 I am going to drive to Wisconsin to visit Beloit again- Ill keep you guys posted as to what I find.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

20

<p>My S is considering both Lawrence and Beloit, leaning toward the latter because the curriculum is more open - not so many GE and core requirements. Both L and B have good reputations for their LAC theater program. Anyone have intimate knowledge of Beloit's acting curriculum? Also, are either 'SAT/ACT optional' colleges? Also, which campus is the nicest - aesthetics?</p>