<p>How much tougher is it to get into the top UC schools if you are out of state?.</p>
<p>Some say it is easier, because California is looking for the out of state tuition.</p>
<p>Some say it is almost impossible, because even higher standards apply to OOS applicants than the already rigorous standards that are applied to in state applicants.</p>
<p>The minimum GPA to get into a UC is higher for out of state than in state, but that is irrelevant for the most selective UCs like Berkeley, Los Angeles, and San Diego, where the minimum GPA to have a significant chance of admission is much higher than the minimum GPA to get into a UC. For students targeting the less selective UCs like Merced and Riverside, the minimum GPA for out of state versus in state is likely to be relevant.</p>
<p>You can check in state versus total entering student stats at [University</a> of California: StatFinder](<a href=“http://statfinder.ucop.edu%5DUniversity”>http://statfinder.ucop.edu) .</p>
<p>But aren’t the UC’s receiving less funding due to budget cuts? Wouldn’t they, to some extent, prefer OOS as they pay quite a bit more tuition? Maybe at the top UC’s budget cuts are not as bad but at the less selective ones I would suspect that. I don’t live in CA though so I really don’t have a lot of background knowledge. Hopefully someone can clarify on this.</p>
<p>They still prefer to admit in-state residents, imho, although it has probably shifted slightly. Cali’s “allegiance” is to their taxpaying families in-state … even if it means taking in less tuition and fees.</p>
<p>Historically, the stats of the OOS wealthy were similar to those of the instate wealthy. In other words, it wasn’t more difficult to get accepted OOS. (What tripped up many OOS’ers was UC’s VAPA requirement.) That being said yes it is now likely that it easier for OOS’er to gain admission, but the differential is miniscule. Of course, UC officially won’t say for political reasons. (But, in a couple of years, it will be easy to use the data on UCStatfinder to manually calculate the stats of OOS’ers, assuming UC continues to post the data – which they may prefer to hide?)</p>
<p>btw: With the exception of a few programs, I’m one of the few on cc who think paying OOS fees for a UC is foolish.</p>
<p>^ I’m not so sure it’s few who think it’s foolish to pay OOS $ for the UCs.</p>
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<p>What do you mean by that? </p>
<p>Say, someone from a rich family in Manila wants to send his smart son to Berkeley to study economics and pay the full fees, do you think the parent is stupid for sending his child to Berkeley?</p>
<p>I think it’s actually easier to get in OOS if you go the right school. My friend goes to UCLA, and he had a 4.1 gpa (valedictorian of his class had a 4.7-low class, usually it’s around 5.0) and his SAT was something like 1820. He got accepted for Biochem. He isn’t rich, he isn’t a urm, or a recruited athlete. I can assume he got accepted because we live in a geographically diverse area for California, we go to a pretty good high school, and he was an OOS student.</p>
<p>As a CA resident who went to both a UC a CSU but now is looking into where my son should go for college, I feel it is not a worth the money to pay OOS fees to be in classes that are overly crowded and be wait listed for others so one will never graduate in 4 years. This also means an extra year of OOS tuition. We now live in the east coast so he would have to apply as an OOS student.</p>
<p>My niece goes to a community college in CA and can not get her classes because students are not able to move up to a CSU or UC and leave so they stay working on additional classes. </p>
<p>There are so many fine schools all over the country that a student may get into without facing this tremendous budget crunch. Perhaps in 5 years when CA straightens out some budget issues it will be better but for now, my son will not be applying to a UC.</p>
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<p>In my opinion (and definition), such person is not out-of-state (‘OOS’) but out-of-country. Different cases. (An OOS’er has plenty of instate options, some/many will be free to them if they have the stats to get into Cal/UCLA. And, following your example, I would hope that an econ prospie would see the value in a free education.)</p>
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<p>Please don’t put words in other people’s posts. You are too smart for that. :)</p>
<p>blue, there are also good schools in Manila. A number of schools there regularly produce graduates to top law, med, engineering and business schools in the US such as Harvard, Stanford, Yale, MIT and Berkeley. But, okay, lets replace Manila with Washington State for your convenience. </p>
<p>Say, someone from the State of Washington wants to study economics at Berkeley. the kid’s parents approved the kid’s decision and are willing to pay the full fees. Would you call the family stupid? Please clarify. There are only a handful of schools that are superior to Berkeley for economics, and none of those handful can’t be found in the State of Washington.</p>
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<p>Actually, if you go to the [University</a> of California: StatFinder](<a href=“http://statfinder.ucop.edu%5DUniversity”>http://statfinder.ucop.edu) , you will find that, even as UC has been steadily defunded by the state, graduation rates have gone up. Both UC and its students have more economics incentive to have students graduate in 8 semesters / 12 quarters and no more. If you look on the UC forums, you’ll find that the “not getting the courses needed to graduate in four years” is not a significant complaint among students there (at least at Berkeley).</p>
<p>It still may not be worth OOS money for most OOS students (especially in competition with schools like Minnesota and Virginia Tech with lower OOS costs, schools like Virginia and North Carolina that give need aid to OOS students, and often one’s in-state flagship), but not for the “not getting the courses needed to graduate in four years” reason.</p>
<p>Community colleges are a completely different story in terms of course overcrowding, though.</p>
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<p>University of Washington isn’t bad for economics (and math). Also, for out of state, University of Minnesota is highly regarded for both economics and math, and its out of state costs are relatively low.</p>
<p>^ that did not answer my question.</p>
<p>Blue said that Berkeley is not worth its price for OOS. I asked her why she thinks Berkeley is not worth the full price. And I’d like to ask him/her which schools, aside from HYPSM, are worth the full price.</p>
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<p>Again, you are making words up. Is that how you and your friends have a civil discussion? (I have never, ever said anyone on cc is “stupid.”)</p>
<p>btw: top 30 econ programs include the 10 publics, many of which provide merit money to instaters with decent stats. Heck, ASU provides merit money to OOS’ers. Do you really beleive that it makes a difference if an undergrad attends #9 or #16 (Madison), or #17 (ASU), particularly if the latter can be free to instaters? (Hint: run the NPV of that investment?)</p>
<p>Of course, anyone with the stats for Cal econ (#9) can easily get accepted to NYU (#10) for the same price.</p>
<p>Cal (of course!)
Wisconsin
Arizona State
UCSD
Minnesota
Wyoming
Maryland
Michigan
Iowa State
Pitt</p>
<p>Blue, my question to you was – why do you think Berkeley econ is not worth the OOS price. If you think Brown’s econ, for example, is worth OOS price, why is Berkeley’s isn’t?</p>
<p>I am aware that there are other great schools out there. But I don’t care about those schools. I know they’re good and impressive too. But they do not strike brilliant to me. Or, at least, not as much as Berkeley does. And, again, I don’t care if they’re equally as good as Berkeley. But if you think they’re places worth the OOS price, why is Berkeley not worth as much?</p>
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I don’t know. But, regardless, that is beside the point. </p>
<p>But why would you let me send my son to study economics at, where, ASU, when he has an offer from Cal econ and I can afford to send him to Cal??? (no offense to ASU but I will never send my son to a school like ASU if he has an offer from Cal.) Cal is a world-class school and I can only count with my fingers how many other schools in the US can I seriously consider world-class schools too.</p>
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<p>Then Berkeley offers you great value. Most folks, however, are unable to discern “brilliance” from a bright light and thus, just go with rankings. But note, however, it is the academics who have decided that ASU has a great econ program. (source: NRC) Perhaps it is not brilliant in your eyes, but in the eyes of academics it is plenty good. And if one is a resident of Arizona and can attend for free…?</p>
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<p>I have no authority to let you send your kid anywhere. And how you want to spend your money is your decision. I may opine that it is a foolish expenditure, but since it is your money, you can and should ignore my opinion. My comments are mostly targeted towards the 18-year-olds, who have no concept of a dollar.</p>
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<p>Indeed, it is – at the graduate level. But it is not world-class for undergraduate education, IMO, and not worth $55k/yr (with the exception of some programs like engineering & college of chem).</p>
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<p>Dunno a thing about Brown’s econ, but I would point out for the vast majority of people, an Ivy education would be cheaper due to great need-based aid. And of course that gets back to my premise: many with the stats to get accepted into Cal can obtain merit money instate. Now if you are rich person (Obama’s so-called ‘millionaires and billionaires and corporate jet owners’), cost won’t matter to you. But to those in the upper middle class…</p>
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<p>I think few publics are worth the OOS price. UVa offers great need-based aid for OOS’ers.</p>
<p>Again, since you mentioned econ, what is the Net Present Value (NPV) of a free education a non “world-class” college vs. paying $55k for a ‘world-class’ college? How do you value “brilliance”?</p>
<p>Hi, floridadad55, regarding UC Berkeley, we went through the OOS admission process for this year’s Class of 2011. Here’s what I learned:</p>
<p>*OOS admits are up 4% to add revenue
*Tuition is up 17.6%
*5-year graduation rates are to be expected
*Admission standards for OOS applicants remain high</p>
<p>The fall class of 2011 is up 4% in OOS admissions. The specific numbers are:</p>
<p>68% in-state (was 73% in 2010)
23% OOS (was 19%)
9% international (was 8%)</p>
<p>See <a href=“http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp[/url]”>http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp</a></p>
<p>Over the summer, UC Berkeley increased fall tuition 9.6% in addition to the previously approved 8% increase. [University</a> of California - UC Newsroom | State budget shortfall forces second fee increase for fall 2011](<a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/25942]University”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/25942) Tuition + fees + room and board at the lowest cost option if you were lucky in the housing lottery = $49,045.50 (plus miscellaneous fees, books, etc.)</p>
<p>The 2011 admission package included a Dear Parent letter that advised families to budget for five years in case required courses were unavailable as needed. That means the $200K undergrad degree could end up costing $250K. </p>
<p>Someone upthread suggested UC Berkeley may be compromising their standards to enroll more revenue-producing OOS students. I disagree; based on our experience in the 2011 applicant pool and college application trends generally, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a constant supply of OOS applicants who possess the desired level of stats.</p>
<p>As indicated, StatFinder shows OOS admits have historically possessed stats that equal or exceed the highest stats of in-state students. So, for the Class of 2009 (last class reported), the comparable data points were:</p>
<p>Unweighted GPA - 3.92 OOS vs. 3.92 highest California region vs. 3.87 overall
SAT - 2168 OOS vs. 2083 highest California region vs. 2048 overall</p>
<p>Although post-2009 data isn’t available for comparing OOS to in-state admits, you can see fairly detailed GPA and test score data for the Class of 2010 in the Common Data Set and summary figures for 2011 on the freshman profile page of the Admissions web site.</p>
<p><a href=“http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2010-11.pdf[/url]”>http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2010-11.pdf</a>
<a href=“http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp[/url]”>http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp</a></p>
<p>I think 2012 applicants can use the 2009 StatFinder spreads and apply them to last year’s profile averages to fairly deduce target stats. Of course, UC Berkeley reads holistically, so the admission process is not all about GPA and test scores! In point of fact, the 2010 Common Data Set confirms essay carries more weight than test scores. With that said, for the same/similar political reasons someone mused that OOS vs. in-state comparisons may be suppressed, I doubt there is as much room for forgiveness of average stats in OOS review vs. in-state review. Certainly, in our admittedly small 2011 OOS sample, the 3 admits had above-average stats. All denied were at or below average.</p>
<p>It’s fun watching RML and bluebayou. Do you think they’ll kiss and make up? :D</p>
<p>TX:</p>
<p>You can solve for instate-oos admits by solving. But the problem with the gross numbers is that they compare different cohorts of applicants. UC gives a huge boost in its holistic review to those that have overcome adversity, which includes economic diversity. Thus, the instaters, on average, are much less wealthy than the OOS’ers. And they will tend to have lower test scores – since test scores track well with family income. </p>
<p>If one sorts out the low income boosts – primarily California residents, one will then be able to compare wealthy California applicants against wealthy OOS applicants. Unfortunately, the data is not available for such a comparison. But I would opine that the OOS applicants are held to slightly lower standards. But that is just a guess, based on what I have seen anecdotally. But you are correct when you conclude:</p>
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<p>Of course, the same is true for instate applicants, as well, who are being replaced by the OOS’ers. :)</p>