<p>Consider going to Berkeley and try it out for the first two years. If you love it, stay. If not, re-apply to Brown (visit sometime between now and then). Good friend's S just did that from UCLA and was able to get thru most of his core curriculum at UCLA and is now at Brown having the time of his life and the education he dreamed of. Also, he earned a fair bit over the 2 summers and with loans, will graduate with much less debt had he gone to Brown for all 4 years. Good luck!</p>
<p>realgeneric:</p>
<p>My S lives not one hour away from our home, but 20 minutes walk. But I don't get to see him every weekend! He came home for spring break and won't be home until end of school in late May. Just like everybody else.
So don't be afraid of your parents descending on you every weekend or being summoned home frequently.
And college life is so so different from high school. It will feel like a different world.</p>
<p>Sick of California, go to Berkeley then do the study overseas(EPA), lots of great options there or apply to a summer job any where but California.</p>
<p>There also things called taxes and social security. If you manage to earn $15,000 during a summer, your take home pay will NOT be $15,000. (My own kid had ONE college summer with earnings up in that area, but only one. The job was one ONLY open to juniors. The company was essentially hiring you for the summer to see if you would be a good fit when you graduated.So, only juniors were eligible. Now maybe there's some job up in Alaska with mind boggling physical labor or something..but still, AFTER taxes and social security and living expenses..NETTING $15,000? I don't think so.) </p>
<p>I love Brown. I'm not fond of Berkeley. That said, there's no doubt that UCB has the bigger name in math and physics. And if your parents really won't pay for Brown, much as I love it, I wouldn't go into as much debt as you would need to take on. </p>
<p>But should you want to TRY to talk to your parents, you might want to try
this article: <a href="http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2003/02/19_rhode.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2003/02/19_rhode.shtml</a>
I'm not saying that you will be a Rhodes Scholar. I'm just saying that when there are 700 or 800 students in a class, it is hard to get to know professors.</p>
<p>The Rhodes has to do with not having the well-oiled machine that Harvard, Yale and Princeton have, with seminars and tutors and administrators all around expediting the process. There are few, if any, other schools, including other Ivies, that have that kind of system in place. At Berkeley the applicant would be operating in a near-vacuum on the administrative side. I don't think meeting professors would be the bottleneck; thousands of grad school recommendations each year are written by Berkeley professors and I imagine a Rhodes-level applicant can get them as well.</p>
<p>Did you actually read the article????</p>
<p>Is there a difference between the two schools as far as name goes? Or the fact that Brown is an ivy?</p>
<p>
[quote]
But should you want to TRY to talk to your parents, you might want to try
this article: <a href="http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkele...19_rhode.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkele...19_rhode.shtml</a>
I'm not saying that you will be a Rhodes Scholar. I'm just saying that when there are 700 or 800 students in a class, it is hard to get to know professors.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As someone with friends who both are Rhodes Scholars and who just missed being so (including from Berkeley), I really have to question putting this up there as an informative data point. </p>
<p>Yes, there isn't as much personal interaction early on at Berkeley, but saying that and then underscoring it with an articule seems to point to Berkeley's relative lack of Rhodes Scholars as some kind of overriding deficiency is frankly not very informative. I had a friend at Georgetown who was inducted into the Rhodes production machine his first or second year and was groomed extensively. He didn't end up getting it, in spite of a tremendous record. No, it's true, Berkeley doesn't do this, but that doesn't mean it couldn't, if it valued that.</p>
<p>It is important to realize that it is not an inordinate percentage of classes at Berkeley have this number of students. That is, not that many.</p>
<p>One element of this article is really informative; a lot of superb Berkeley students may undervalue their tremendous achievements.</p>
<p>None of this changes anything; Brown would, all things considered, probably be a better choice for you even considering Berkeley's superior academics in your chosen field. But if you can't pursue that path, you'll do fine. Just don't be fatalistic about your collegiate career either way; be pro-active (to use that bull**** word).</p>
<p>The OP can't get a loan for $100k, so it is still a non-issue.</p>
<p>
[quote]
One element of this article is really informative; a lot of superb Berkeley students may undervalue their tremendous achievements.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Berkeley's admissions (before the new "holistic" phase) being much more straightforward and objective than Ivy League means that it is less of a magnet for self-promoters. Harvard students are more prone to overvalue and oversell their accomplishments, starting from the Harvard admission itself. You get what you select for.</p>
<p>You are a liberal...try to make your parents feel guilty about how selfish they are and not living up to the liberal philosophy...heck they sound more conservative republicans than liberals...They need to give, give, give till it hurts. Afterall, a typical liberal wants those who have to give everything up to those who don't ...time to live through actions not words.</p>
<p>From what I have seen, many kids who live twenty to sixty minutes away from their parents never come home unless it is a school holiday. Although, if you get a roommate you don't like or you just need some privacy, then it would be nice to go home for the night. </p>
<p>Berkeley has some big classes but also many opportunities for undergrauate research.</p>
<p>Haven't heard too much about snobby kids at Berkeley. Most I've met feel lucky to be there.</p>
<p>Berkeley, like most schools, is what the student makes of it.</p>
<p>Good luck with your decision.</p>
<p>It all sounds great, work in the summers, be an RA, etc etc but will you have a life? Have fun? </p>
<p>Over the long-term will you find a better job because you went to Brown over UC-B? No. </p>
<p>Over the next four years, will you have more flexibility to do summer school, junior year abroad if you go to UC-B? Yes.</p>
<p>Are you tired of CA? Yes, but to the tune of $!00K? Probably not. Think about it this way. $100K is a lot of money to travel over summers etc to get out of CA.</p>
<p>It's easy for people to post and say "go to Brown" over UC-B or go to "Princeton" over a full ride at Vandy etc etc but when you have to come up with the funds, or your parents, because they don't qualify for the grants and the aid, then you need to sit back and really consider the is the over all experience and quality of education really worth the delta in cost? </p>
<p>I think we all get caught up on the rankings and prestige. You are lucky, both schools are well thought of and well known. And remember, you are smart enough to get in both which means you will succeed no matter what.</p>
<p>Best of luck.</p>