<p>I got into Berkeley as a BioE major and a Regents and Chancellors scholar....and i got into Caltech on the waiting list... am i retarded if i dont go to caltech (as everyone has been telling me)?</p>
<p>i think u are retarded if u go to caltech :p</p>
<p>I had to make this decision a few weeks ago, and I chose Caltech (I also had Regents and Chancellors for EECS at Berkeley). Besides Berkeley being cheaper, I just didn't feel like it was a good fit at all. I did not want to be competing with 6,000 other freshmen over a relatively small amount of research opportunities. Although Caltech is known for being probably the toughest school in the country, it is not because of ridiculous grading scales or cutthroat peers (I'm not saying this is the norm at Berkeley, but I've heard a few stories about such things from friends.). The reason why Caltech is so difficult is that you will cover the material at other universities usually at greater depth, but your peers will be there to help one each other out. Also, I wanted some sort of interaction with professors, and it is much easier to get that at Caltech than at Berkeley. Basically, there are much better support structures if you are struggling at Caltech. If you want opportunities and are willing to work hard for them, it is easy to get them at Caltech. There is also greater flexibility when it comes to choosing your major at Caltech. You only have to decide your major around the end of sophomore year. At Berkeley, I've heard it can be a pain to change your major and also get all the classes you need. Finally, I felt safer at Caltech than Berkeley, and I thought the Caltech campus was beautiful. If you are seriously into math/science, then I'd pick Caltech.</p>
<p>Thanks you so much ramsfan!! but the thing im most worried about is that i won't be able to compete with the students at Caltech... because at Caltech i got in on the waiting list... so i know im not one of the best students there..in fact i might be one of the least prepared to go to caltech...also i looked at the stats of the people who got accepted to caltech and practically all of them have won national reasearch awards
since i got into berkeley as a regents and chancellors scholar.. i know at least im in the top 200 of the students in my year...</p>
<p>is that reasoning at all accurate? do most of the entering freshmen at caltech have incredibly strong backgrounds in math and science
(i.e. crazy westinghouse whatever award) or do they just have a lot of 5s in their aps and 800s in their Sats?</p>
<p>Here is a post from Ben Golub, a junior at Caltech and an extremely helpful person on life at Caltech:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=2371169&postcount=48%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=2371169&postcount=48</a>
So, if you're admitted, rest assured that you are qualified. Also, it is true that you will be surrounded by some amazing people at Caltech, but the number of people who have gone to IMO or won national awards at Westinghouse or whatever don't make up a significant part of the population. In fact, I've heard from Ben that the majority of admits have not had any research at all. It is also important to keep in mind that these awards or perfect scores don't necessarily translate into how well one would do in college courses. If you come in with the right attitude and work ethic, I think you'll be just fine.</p>
<p>I think Caltech probably has better support structures as ramsfan has said, but I must contest a few points.</p>
<p>
[quote]
At Berkeley, I've heard it can be a pain to change your major and also get all the classes you need.
[/quote]
If this person is strong enough to get in as a Regents/Chancellors Scholar and into Caltech as well, I have my doubts he/she will have that much difficulty changing majors, as ability to do so is based on GPA.</p>
<p>Also, classes aren't that hard to get. Perhaps in some rare situations you might not get into a class you wanted this semester--you simply take another one and get it next semester.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Finally, I felt safer at Caltech than Berkeley, and I thought the Caltech campus was beautiful. If you are seriously into math/science, then I'd pick Caltech.
[/quote]
Eh, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think Caltech looks nice too, though I like Berkeley better myself. It depends on personal fit, of course, and Berkeley isn't exactly dismal in math/science.</p>
<p>If the person is certain he/she wants math/science absolutely and likes to be around people who are likewise extremely into math/science, Caltech would probably be the better choice.
Berkeley would have more variety in interests.</p>
<p>Your reasoning is not accurate. CalTech is so small that it could probably admit twice the number of students and quality would stay the same. I know someone who attends CalTech and he hasn't won any major competition/whatever to my knowledge. He didn't even take AP Physics or AP Calculus BC or anything. (not to belittle him; he's pretty smart)</p>
<p>Another contested point-</p>
<p>
[quote]
I did not want to be competing with 6,000 other freshmen over a relatively small amount of research opportunities
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The entire freshmen class does not want to do research, and many that do probably not want to do it in your field.</p>
<p>Point taken, but the fact is that the ratio of (people who want to do research and in your field)/(# of opportunities) is much larger at Berkeley than Caltech. This ratio is actually less than 1 at Caltech, meaning there are more opportunities than people. The cool thing about Caltech is it is the size of a LAC and yet it is one of the research powerhouses along with MIT, Stanford, Harvard, and Berkeley. Make no mistake, I still have great respect for Berkeley and would love to go there for grad school, but I just wanted to point out Caltech's advantages for someone who appeared to be in the same situation I was in.</p>
<p>What a great dilemma, you really can't go wrong with either choice. Cal is big, but it isn't the factory some posters make it sound like. As well, Cal's campus and environment are gorgeous and very stimulating. Much more lively than CT's. </p>
<p>Where Cal is superior is in its more balanced, intellectually broader and more stimulating environment. It's a more classic college experience.</p>
<p>Where cal Tech is superior is in its focus and dedication to the undergraduate technical education.</p>
<p>If you view engineering as the only goal and all the rest is just garnish, go to CT. If you are just as serious about engineering but like to have a more well-rounded college experience and want to grow personally beyond the classroom, go to Cal.</p>
<p>Personally, I am extremely glad to have ended up at Cal as opposed to CT or MIT. Your mileage may vary...</p>
<p>
[quote]
This ratio is actually less than 1 at Caltech, meaning there are more opportunities than people.
[/quote]
Depending on what kind of research you want to go into, Berkeley has the same problem. Besides, looking over the roster of some of the Regents and Chancellor's Scholar's participating professors, I somehow don't think it'll be that hard to snag a research position by asking the professor heading it over lunch.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Make no mistake, I still have great respect for Berkeley and would love to go there for grad school, but I just wanted to point out Caltech's advantages for someone who appeared to be in the same situation I was in.
[/quote]
I applaud you for continuing to give others advice. I think it is a good thing to do. However, it becomes slightly irksome to hear that people would love to go to Berkeley for grad school and not undergraduate, even though the professors are the same.</p>
<p>Understandably, some people like less people around--however, I don't think Berkeley is bad off at all, looking over everything. It just doesn't really hand you things, but the academic quality is the same as any of the top schools.</p>
<p>However, if you like a more "huggable" environment, Berkeley probably doesn't fit the bill, since it expects you to be independent to a large degree.</p>
<p>In any case, as I said in my other post, smileythingy, you should go to whatever school you like the culture more at.</p>
<p>Like Ram, I also chose Caltech this year over Berkeley Regent's and Chancellors (except I'm in chemistry.) It was kind of a difficult decision for me to make because of the price difference but in the end I just knew that Caltech was a much better fit for me. I honestly didn't like the idea that at Berkeley I would be one of the top students going in. I thought I would be able to improve myself better in an environment where almost everyone else is as smart as or smarter than I am. I also liked that at Caltech everyone (even the humanities majors) has to take a very rigorous course load everyone is in the same boat. </p>
<p>The thing that really made me sure I wanted to go to Caltech was the student body. Every student I met was friendly, intelligent and had a quirky sense of humor. The small undergraduate size made it so pretty much everyone knew each other, respected each other, and could easily collaborate with each other. Also, Caltech seemed a lot more supportive of the individual than larger schools could ever possibly be. There is a lot of help for you if you are struggling academically from both the school and fellow students. Also, thanks to the small size, the administration really trusts the undergraduates and gives them a lot of freedoms. They respect them to make intelligent decisions and obey (and wisely interpret) the Honor Code. Because of this almost all of the tests are take-home, you can easily get funding to do all sorts of things, and you can do pretty much anything you want in the houses (painting the walls, adding secret passages, random construction, who-knows-what.) Surprisingly (to me anyways,) the whole campus seemed really laid-back too. And for such a small school, Caltech students have a very wide variety of (fairly-nerdy) interests.</p>
<p>If money is an issue, then that might solidify things.</p>
<p>"I applaud you for continuing to give others advice. I think it is a good thing to do. However, it becomes slightly irksome to hear that people would love to go to Berkeley for grad school and not undergraduate, even though the professors are the same.</p>
<p>Understandably, some people like less people around--however, I don't think Berkeley is bad off at all, looking over everything. It just doesn't really hand you things, but the academic quality is the same as any of the top schools.
"</p>
<p>Its becuase schools offer some opportunities as a graduate school that you cant get as an undergrad, and its REALLY not a good idea to spend 8 years at one school. just 2 cents.</p>
<p>False .</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you view engineering as the only goal and all the rest is just garnish, go to CT. If you are just as serious about engineering but like to have a more well-rounded college experience and want to grow personally beyond the classroom, go to Cal.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would actually say that this is even more true of the sciences than of engineering. Caltech is more of a science school than an engineering school. While obviously Caltech engineering is world-class, the fact is, its science rankings tend to be better, and more of its students tend to be science majors, as opposed to MIT where engineering really is king. </p>
<p>
[quote]
If money is an issue, then that might solidify things.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree that if money is the issue, then you should take Berkeley. </p>
<p>However, I would point out that Caltech offers numerous merit scholarships that can be earned as a continuing student, with many of them offering full rides. Berkeley tends to offer very few (as a percentage of the student body). Hence, if you go to Caltech and do well in your first few semesters, you may not have to pay for your remaining semesters. Berkeley, on the other hand, tends to offer most of its scholarships upfront, with few available for continuing students. {To digress, I think Berkeley should do offer scholarships to continuing students. For example, every year, some Regent/Chancellor Scholars perform poorly enough to lose their scholarships. What Berkeley should do is reassign these lost scholarships to some of the top continuing students.} </p>
<p>
[quote]
Where Cal is superior is in its more balanced, intellectually broader and more stimulating environment. It's a more classic college experience.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I disagree with the notion that Cal is more 'stimulating', although I suppose that depends on how you define 'stimulating'. At Caltech, you can't help but be intellectually stimulated because of the extremely high level of per-capita resources around you as well as the extremely high intellectual levels of the students. However, at Cal, let's face it, there are a significant number of lazy students who are more interesting in partying and drinking than in learning. I suppose that could be deemed 'stimulating', depending on how you define 'stimulating'.</p>
<p>However, I agree that Cal is broader and more balanced. I think it is up to the student to determine just how important that is. If you have diverse interests that span to the humanities and social sciences, then Berkeley is probably better for you. However, if you are more tech-focused and especially if you are more comfortable in a smaller milieu, then Caltech is better for you.</p>
<p>Caltech and Berkeley are definitely very different environments. I think it comes down to what you feel comfortable in for the next four years of your life.</p>
<p>I love reading your posts, sakky.</p>
<p>um, prestige-wise, berkeley is more world-renowned than caltech. The world-class school includes Harvard-Yale-MIT-Columbia-Stanford-Berkeley. </p>
<p>I dont wanna discourage OP, but IMO, a regent scholar @berkeley (super-star) will open you many more doors than a back-door student @caltech.</p>
<p>P.S.this is 5 years ago- i know a guy who got into harvard & caltech. A brilliant student, extremely good at math/physics. He chosed caltech over harvard cuz of caltech's AXA scholarship (full-ride). After freshman year, he transferred to harvard. Paraphrasing what he said: "caltech is wonderful for techie courses, but other than math/science, there is not much". Harvard accepted him as a transfered sophomore. He majored physics at haravrd, now in new york, looking to go graduate school.</p>
<p>Hmm. I'm very curious where you live, Rabban.</p>
<p>I would be a happy, happy student if Berkeley was really seen in that light everywhere.</p>
<p>True enough, Caltech is relatively unheard of for your common man, but in academic circles, it is definitely known and respected.</p>
<p>It depends on the person of course, but getting Regents/Chancellors at Berkeley was actually a turn-off for me. Not the perks, of course, but being among the top 200 admitted takes somewhat away from the inch-by-inch struggle to the top. Not to say that it would be easy even so, but wouldn't it be so much more interesting to know everyone else currently stands stronger than you? Being a backdoor student means you have so much more development to go, and who knows what heights you can achieve by your end?</p>
<p>Then again, I might be peculiar in this manner.</p>