<p>There is some cuddling going on at Cal, but certainly there could be more.</p>
<p>DRab, the cuddling is not going to happen in front of your computer on a Saturday night, you should get out and get some! hehehe...</p>
<p>I think sakky has some good ideas and doesn't go out of his way to be a jerk, but the thing that you have to remember when reading his posts is that he thinks Berkeley, at the UG level, is only "fairly decent". This is his opinion and I don't have a problem with that, but just keep in mind the fact that he, unlike the vast majority of learned people, just doesn't think berkeley ug is good. I don't know about you, but when someone's opinion is THAT different from what you see as reality, you can only get so much from a discussion with him.</p>
<p>to the original poster, you're gonna be alright with a degree from either school (unlike most people on these boards i realize that there is not a huge difference between top 20 schools). go where you want...</p>
<p>If you aren't worried about money, go to Stanford.</p>
<p>If you are, then it's up to you.</p>
<p>Personally if I were loaded enough to go to either, I'd choose Stanford. (And yeah, I go to Berkeley.)</p>
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Saying that the only positive aspect of Berkeley college experience are the graduate departments is obviously a jab.
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<p>Once again, playing the straw man game. Did I SAY that the only positive aspect of Berkeley were the graduate departments? Please point to the quote where I specifically said that that was the ONLY positive aspect of Berkeley. Can't do it, can you? That's because I never said it. Read my posts more carefully. </p>
<p>You asked me to name a positive aspect of Berkeley, so I named one. Why that one? Because it will always be the first one to come to mind, because it is the most important one. That doesn't mean that it's the only one, just the most important one. </p>
<p>The truth is, again, Berkeley's strengths lie predominantly in the graduate departments. This is something that has been noted time and time again by many observers, and even by the administration itself. </p>
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For me, to talk about the negative aspects of Berkeley reminds me of confession at church on a good month when I was a kid, something I had to think about or just make up. OK, the placement is better at the Ivies, though I did get a great job offer. I could say that the grading is tougher too, but I did get into Wharton's MBA program with a B average at Cal Engineering because I didn't really study that hard? Maybe they know about that program in Philly...
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<p>Anybody who has to think very hard about problems at Berkeley either had a ridiculously positive experience, or (more likely) is just spinning. Even the happiest Berkeley students, I have heard rail about the cold administration. They have complained about the lack of resources per capita and long lines for stuff. There's a long list of bad things about the Berkeley undergrad experience that could be made better. </p>
<p>But as long as nobody ever talks about those problems, they will NEVER get fixed. And I think that's EXACTLY what the administration wants - that as long as nobody ever talks about the problems, they never have to do anything to make things better. </p>
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It seems hard for you to conceive that there are many Cal grads who adored their college experience. If any of the hundreds of Cal alums that I know where as disillusioned or negative as you, i would have an easier time seeing your point of view. Maybe I should hang out at the FedEx warehouses more?
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<p>You think that I am that disillusioned or negative? You haven't met some of the REALLY disgruntled people. Trust me, there are Berkeley grads who are far far more negative about the experience. </p>
<p>Do I agree that there are some people who do very well at Berkeley and like it a lot? Sure. I have never said otherwise. Like I said, Berkeley is very good for those students who are strong enough to handle it. I have never worried about the students who do well. My question has always been - what about those who don't do well? It seems to me that you don't care about them. I do. </p>
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but the thing that you have to remember when reading his posts is that he thinks Berkeley, at the UG level, is only "fairly decent".
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<p>Once again, GS, read my posts in their proper context. When I said 'fairly decent', it was in the context of the comparison to the top private schools. The truth is, when compared to places like HYPSM, then 'fairly decent' is probably about the best that anyone can say. I could have said "worst", because frankly, Berkeley undergrad probably is the worst when compared to places like HYPSM. </p>
<p>Let me give you an example. When Nietzche said that "God is Dead", many people thought he was making this declaration happily. After all, Nietzche had a rather antagonistic relationship with Christianity. However, if you read his work carefully, you will see that Nietzche actually meant his declaration as a lamentation. He regretted the fact that God was dead (in the sense that fewer people believed in God), because that meant that society would inevitably fall into nihilism. That is what I mean by putting a quote in proper context. </p>
<p>Otherwise, fine have it your way. Let's see when people pull your posts completely out of context, and then see what you have to say. I'm sure that there are plenty of your quotes out there that can be completely twisted when not placed in proper context.</p>
<p>Hey, sakky quoting Nietzsche. The world is getting better and better. If you really contexualize the "God is dead," one would find that he was quoting Hegel, but I'm sure Nietzsche wouldn't mind the myth and consufsion.</p>
<p>I appreciate Sakky's posts. One of Berkeley's greatest strengths is that students are not afraid to discuss dissenting views openly. I can appreciate that Berkeley is a great school for strong students who know what they want to study and have a lot of initiative but is not great for weaker students, students who are uncertain about major or those who need more assistance. Understanding clearly what the problems are (such as impacted majors) is important for prospective students as they determine the "best fit."</p>
<p>I don't think that Berkeley is that poor of a place for student who are unsure what they want to major in. There might be better places, but each major is generally strong, and Berkeley has many specialty majors. Yes, some can be hard to access, but that doesn't mean it's a poor place for students unsure of what they want to major in.</p>
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but that doesn't mean it's a poor place for students unsure of what they want to major in.
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<p>Unless you are considering the engineering majors, right?</p>
<p>Certain exceptions doesn't make it on the whole the rule.</p>
<p>"One of Berkeley's greatest strengths is that students are not afraid to discuss dissenting views openly."</p>
<p>Uhhhh ... no. This is definitely not true of Berkeley and its cliqueyness. Many don't care enough to discuss anything at all, and if they do you can bet they are mostly liberal.</p>
<p>Someone will probably bring up the Republican party being the biggest student group on campus, but that's only in absolute terms and thats from spread out all over campus. </p>
<p>"I can appreciate that Berkeley is a great school for strong students who know what they want to study and have a lot of initiative but is not great ... "</p>
<p>Its not necessarily a good school for them either. Sakky was motivated and got into a great grad school and has much to criticize abut the experience. Calkidd who use to post on here did as well, and he went to harvard grad. </p>
<p>I would have to say that Cal does have opportunities but the opportunties all take a much bigger commitment and investment than they would at most schools and the poor networking prospects and poor advising makes it difficult to know what to do. Combined with the poor social environment and I would definitely say go to Stanford.</p>
<p>stanford has a waaaaaaaaaay worse social environment than cal if thats one of your deciding factors. i can't imagine a more drab place to go to college than palo alto.</p>
<p>Sakky, you don't think Berkeley UG is good, right? If you do, please say so and clarify your opinion. Personally, I think Cal is good. No matter what school or schools you're comparing it to. Maybe HYPSM is super-duper-fantastic-awesome beyond belief, but Cal is still good, and for some people Cal is even (gasp!) better. And for you to say I'm taking you out of context isn't completey acurate. I don't believe you mentioned anything about HYPSM when you said Cal was only fairly decent.</p>
<p>For social environment I meant developing life long relationships and making lifelong friends.</p>
<p>I guess if you like partying, Cal would be better.</p>
<p>you can develop life long relationships at any school</p>
<p>The thought of going to Stanford so bored my S that he didn't even apply. I'm sure it's a great university for some people, but certainly not for all. We have friends who sent both their kids there and they loved it! However, our son wanted a vibrant, urban, diverse and intellectually challenging place to live. A real world experience, well, as real world as a university life can be (:)). </p>
<p>In his first year at Cal, my son has made at least 50 new friends, his cell rings off the hook, he's busy all day, every day, with not just classes and social events, but ECs and internship work. He knows two professors (out of the 7 he's had so far) well enough to be able to ask for letters of rec. He parties sometimes (which as his mom I don't like!) but is too busy to do it a lot. He's maintaining a 3.8 gpa and double majoring. He was never what I would have called a super self-starter before college but there are so many opportunities at Cal and so many bright, energetic people that I guess the opportunities are falling in his lap. Or he's changed a lot in the past eight months. Or a combination of the two.</p>
<p>And Polite Antagonis, he can discuss any current event you want, with the possible exception of sports. He's well-read, and not just in his field of interest. He loves to argue, debate, shoot the breeze. And he's not into cliques. He seems to think there are many people just like him at Cal. Have you been holed up in your room so long on your computer that you've forgotten how to meet them?</p>
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Sakky, you don't think Berkeley UG is good, right? If you do, please say so and clarify your opinion. Personally, I think Cal is good. No matter what school or schools you're comparing it to. Maybe HYPSM is super-duper-fantastic-awesome beyond belief, but Cal is still good, and for some people Cal is even (gasp!) better. And for you to say I'm taking you out of context isn't completey acurate. I don't believe you mentioned anything about HYPSM when you said Cal was only fairly decent.
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<p>I personally don't have to mention anything, because the context had already been set by others within the thread. Go back and see for yourself. That is, unless you believe that I need to repeat every single thing that anybody has ever said in a thread. </p>
<p>When you ask me whether Cal is 'good', I would ask you what context of which you speak. Hence, context is key. Compared to the top private schools? Then, no Cal undergrad is not that good. Compared to all of the other US public schools? Then clearly Cal is very good.</p>
<p>I like how you liek to make assumptions about me. I do stuff independent and apart from the school. I've learned my lesson from going to Berkeley to avoid all the untalented students.</p>
<p>A stanford degree means much more than a Berkeley degree. Much more. There are 6-8k grads from berkeley a year and only about 1/4th of that number from Stanford. Many Berkeley students are very incapable people and yet get a degree in a creampuff major.</p>
<p>So, PA. 23,000 undergrads and you can't find a handful of talented ones to do stuff with? </p>
<p>Sounds to me like you have a major chip on your shoulder, which might tend to make smart students avoid you, or you aren't telling the truth. </p>
<p>And, just so we are clear, please define "talented" students. You've painted a pretty clear picture over numerous posts about what you think "untalented" students are like. I'd really like to know what types of students you'd rather be spending your college years with.</p>