Berkeley vs University of Pennsylvania...can't decide!!!

[sakky]

<p>

In absolute number, Berkeley send as many students to these professions as HYPSM. Harvard isn’t a transformer. It cannot get a banking job for a mediocre student.
The same student would still be able to get into the same job had he gone to Berkeley. So the law of large number wouldn’t apply to him at all.

</p>

<p>Wrong - the law of large numbers DOES apply to him. Like I said before, some HYPSM undergrads can get hired by venture capital firms right out of undergrad. How many Berkeley undergrads can say the same? </p>

<p>The key difference is not only that VC firms actually recruit out of HYPSM, but I think even more importantly, that the VC social networks - which is where the real hiring is performed - extend deeply into the alumni bases of HYPSM. At Berkeley, not so much. Hence, Berkeley students don’t even get the chance. </p>

<p>The above holds even for the less selective banking and consulting jobs. Like I said, the sheer crush of Berkeley undergrads trying to get those jobs, coupled with the relatively small number of openings for them, means that many otherwise worthy students can’t even get an interview. I can think of quite a few people with strong GPA’s who wanted to get into consulting who couldn’t even get a single interview with any of the top firms because all of the slots had been taken by other students. {To be fair, they did get interviews at some of the lesser firms.} In contrast, at those other schools, practically everybody who wanted an interview at a top firm got at least one. That’s not to say that they got the offer, but at least they got the interview.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

Harvard OTR: Fresno Resident Graduates From Harvard With a 4.0 GPA, Now Works at Blockbuster

</p>

<p>I believe the MSNBC story specifically stated that she just needed an easy job that provides her with plenty of free time while she studied for her LSAT, and I’m quite certain she will head to a top law school shortly. Does anybody think the Berkeley Starbucks or B&N person did the same?</p>

[mathboy98]

<p>Sakky, sorry if you have answered this before, but I posed it earlier – what is the reason you believe </p>

<p>

I can think of quite a few people with strong GPA’s who wanted to get into consulting who couldn’t even get a single interview with any of the top firms because all of the slots had been taken by other students. {To be fair, they did get interviews at some of the lesser firms.} In contrast, at those other schools, practically everybody who wanted an interview at a top firm got at least one. That’s not to say that they got the offer, but at least they got the interview.

</p>

<p>is the situation at Berkeley? Please refer me to a post or something if you’ve already answered this, as I’m interested.</p>

[middsmith]

<p>

Wrong - the law of large numbers DOES apply to him. Like I said before, some HYPSM undergrads can get hired by venture capital firms right out of undergrad. How many Berkeley undergrads can say the same?

Probably as many as some of these schools in absolute number. </p>

<p>

The above holds even for the less selective banking and consulting jobs. Like I said, the sheer crush of Berkeley undergrads trying to get those jobs, coupled with the relatively small number of openings for them, means that many otherwise worthy students can’t even get an interview. I can think of quite a few people with strong GPA’s who wanted to get into consulting who couldn’t even get a single interview with any of the top firms because all of the slots had been taken by other students.

So they all submit their resumes for the interview. The employers select 8 or whatever from the pile to interview. If they didn’t get picked, that means it wasn’t a good match. The point is, there are other students who were picked, and they were picked because they were better at something.<br>

<br>
In contrast, at those other schools, practically everybody who wanted an interview at a top firm got at least one. That’s not to say that they got the offer, but at least they got the interview.

What? Seriously? What kind of top firm has the time to accommodate “practically everybody”</p>

<p>

I believe the MSNBC story specifically stated that she just needed an easy job that provides her with plenty of free time while she studied for her LSAT, and I’m quite certain she will head to a top law school shortly. Does anybody think the Berkeley Starbucks or B&N person did the same?

Yes, if the Berkeley Starbucks or B&N person got 4.0. Besides, it’s very unlikely MSNBC would run a sob story on a Berkeley grad.</p>

<p>How do you explain the 30%+ at Harvard who went on to do “Teach for America” ? Those are probably the bottom of the class, couldn’t get a real job and have to settle for something you can get out of UC Merced.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

What? Seriously? What kind of top firm has the time to accommodate “practically everybody”

</p>

<p>Uh, I never said that every top firm has the time to accommodate practically everybody.</p>

<p>I said that there are enough top firms around that practically everybody can get an interview at at least one of them, coupled with the fact that those top firms offer numerous available spots, relative to the number of students in the school. For example, I seem to recall in a recent year how several of the top consulting firms actually had entire swaths of extra slots available for students at MIT, and people could just walk in and sign up for them. </p>

<p>But, as you said, at Berkeley, all of the (numerous) interested students all try to apply for interview slots with the top firms, and some of those students end up with no interviews at all with any of those firms. I can certainly think of quite a few students who that happened to. </p>

<p>

Yes, if the Berkeley Starbucks or B&N person got 4.0. Besides, it’s very unlikely MSNBC would run a sob story on a Berkeley grad.

</p>

<p>Do you think the Berkeley person did get a 4.0? Only a tiny handful of Berkeley students will go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford Law School where I am willing to bet we will find that Harvard girl soon. What are the odds that the Berkeley B&N or Starbucks person did the same? </p>

<p>

How do you explain the 30%+ at Harvard who went on to do “Teach for America” ? Those are probably the bottom of the class, couldn’t get a real job and have to settle for something you can get out of UC Merced.

</p>

<p>Uh, wrong. Complete wrong. Please check your facts. 30%+ of Harvard students did not end up at Teach for America. 30%+ of African-American Harvard students, applied to Teach for America. Even given that, that doesn’t mean that they took the jobs. As I’m sure you know, when recruiting season comes around, you apply for multiple jobs, and possibly also apply to grad school, and then you actually take the one opportunity that you find most appealing. </p>

<p>More than 11% of Ivy League seniors applied, including 35% of African-American seniors at Harvard</p>

<p>[Teach</a> for (Some of) America - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124061253951954349.html]Teach”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124061253951954349.html)</p>

<p>Besides, Teach for America is actually one of the most elite employers in the country. In fact, its very model is to change the way that K-12 teaching is conducted by bringing in the very best college graduates into the teaching profession - precisely those people who have never been attracted to teaching before. There is a longstanding debate about just how valuable TFA is, but its fundamentally elitist quality is indisputable.</p>

<p>*. Some argue that the program is an invaluable resource, recruiting the best college graduates from top universities to America’s neediest classrooms. Others contend that it’s no more than a feel-good stopgap between Ivy League campuses and cushy boardrooms. Maybe it’s both. *</p>

<p>[A</a> tale of two teaching experiences: is Teach for America a brilliant way to bring Ivy League talent into some of the nation’s neediest classrooms? Or is it just letting them pad their resumes at the expense of inner city students? (16-NOV-06) Diverse](<a href=“http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-29111873_ITM]A”>http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-29111873_ITM)</p>

<p>*Teaching does not pay much. It is not glamorous. And the qualifications of most young people going into the field are less than impressive. A report by the National Council on Teacher Quality last year said that the profession attracts “a disproportionately high number of candidates from the lower end of the distribution of academic ability.”</p>

<p>But then there is Teach for America, whose members typically have top academic credentials - the average G.P.A. is 3.5 - experience with children and determination to get results. *</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/02/education/02teach.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/02/education/02teach.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Basically, TFA is akin to the “McKinsey” or “Goldman Sachs” of the teaching profession, and serves as the elite vanguard that is being developed to revolutionize teaching. I would be just as impressed with a Berkeley student as one from any other school who got into TFA.</p>

<p>In any case, middsmith, next time please do your homework before you cite something off the cuff. Your example of TFA actually strongly supports my position, not yours.</p>

[SDTB]

<p>KitKatz - Based on your posts, I believe you will make a wise choice. It’s hard to imagine that you will dislike either place.</p>

<p>As you have noted already, your Regents won’t help too much with your graduate admissions. It’s more of a convenience+bragging right than anything else, so it isn’t worth much.</p>

<p>What it does do for you is that it becomes easier to network with other great students. One aspect of college is networking/making friends. It shouldn’t be understated that Regents can help you network with other Regents scholars (people who have a higher probability at post-undergraduate success).</p>

<p>sakky I understand that most of this McKinsey conversation is focused on undergraduates, but what about post-undergrad students?</p>

<p>On the McKinsey website, the website makes no mention to hiring undergraduates. It seems to be a rare occurance (as stated in the thread) and they don’t promote it at all.</p>

<p>source: [Frequently</a> Asked Question | McKinsey APD Recruiting](<a href=“http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/ASKARECRUITER/FAQ/tabid/3479/Default.aspx]Frequently”>http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/ASKARECRUITER/FAQ/tabid/3479/Default.aspx)</p>

<p>

PhDs, highlight top labs at lower ranked departments. We know what the leading departments in a field are, but we won’t necessarily know of all renowned researchers in all fields. If you’re working in a distinctive lab at a lower ranked department, please let us know.

Highlight distinctive awards, honors, fellowships. For any distinctive honors, we would love to know the number of applicants, the number awarded, the selection criteria, and the amount of the grant (if applicable).

PhDs, highlight distinctive refereed journal publications. Explicitly highlight publications in prestigious journals. We tend to discount publications that are in preparation, but not submitted.

Include anything else that is distinctive. We are interested in all academic and non-academic achievements from the recent past.

</p>

<p>Source:[Application</a> Tips | McKinsey APD Recruiting](<a href=“http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/ApplicationTips/tabid/2916/Default.aspx]Application”>http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/ApplicationTips/tabid/2916/Default.aspx)</p>

<p>This seems to indicate that they aren’t as name brand with post-undergraduate schools. They seem to acknowledge the intricacies of the academia game/other professional schools, if anything.</p>

<p>In another thread, I looked up McKinsey backgrounds on their site</p>

<p>[Featured</a> Profiles:Stefan | McKinsey APD Recruiting](<a href=“http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/MEETUS/ConsultantProfiles/FeaturedProfiles/FeaturedProfilesStefan/tabid/2907/Default.aspx]Featured”>http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/MEETUS/ConsultantProfiles/FeaturedProfiles/FeaturedProfilesStefan/tabid/2907/Default.aspx) PhD: UC San Diego</p>

<p>[Featured</a> Profiles:Laura | McKinsey APD Recruiting](<a href=“http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/MEETUS/ConsultantProfiles/FeaturedProfiles/FeaturedProfilesLaura/tabid/2905/Default.aspx]Featured”>http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/MEETUS/ConsultantProfiles/FeaturedProfiles/FeaturedProfilesLaura/tabid/2905/Default.aspx) PhD: UC San Diego (BS - Berkeley)</p>

<p>[Featured</a> Profiles:Bob | McKinsey APD Recruiting](<a href=“http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/MEETUS/ConsultantProfiles/FeaturedProfiles/FeaturedProfilesBob/tabid/2903/Default.aspx]Featured”>http://www.apd.mckinsey.com/MEETUS/ConsultantProfiles/FeaturedProfiles/FeaturedProfilesBob/tabid/2903/Default.aspx) MD: George Washington University</p>

<p>These schools are not as name brand. It is probably true that name brand schools give you an advantage, but it seems like that if a student is good and is interested in McKinsey, that student has a decent shot at getting an interview.</p>

[middsmith]

<p>
[quote=I said that there are enough top firms around that practically everybody can get an interview at at least one of them, coupled with the fact that those top firms offer numerous available spots, relative to the number of students in the school. For example, I seem to recall in a recent year how several of the top consulting firms actually had entire swaths of extra slots available for students at MIT, and people could just walk in and sign up for them.
[/quote]

How many top firms? how many students? Let say only 8 students are interested, 8 students are the top students, so 8 students should be able to get one everywhere. It’s not like student A decided to only apply for firm A. If people could just walk in and sign up, that firm must be Bears Stern.

Only a tiny handful of Berkeley students will go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford Law School where I am willing to bet we will find that Harvard girl soon. What are the odds that the Berkeley B&N or Starbucks person did the same?

I remember reading somewhere the same amount of students get in. the WSJ study showed Berkeley sent quite a lot. I’m not talking about per capita.

Uh, wrong. Complete wrong. Please check your facts. 30%+ of Harvard students did not end up at Teach for America. 30%+ of African-American Harvard students, applied to Teach for America. Even given that, that doesn’t mean that they took the jobs. As I’m sure you know, when recruiting season comes around, you apply for multiple jobs, and possibly also apply to grad school, and then you actually take the one opportunity that you find most appealing.</p>

<p>More than 11% of Ivy League seniors applied, including 35% of African-American seniors at Harvard</p>

<p>Teach for (Some of) America - WSJ.com</p>

<p>Besides, Teach for America is actually one of the most elite employers in the country. In fact, its very model is to change the way that K-12 teaching is conducted by bringing in the very best college graduates into the teaching profession - precisely those people who have never been attracted to teaching before. There is a longstanding debate about just how valuable TFA is, but its fundamentally elitist quality is indisputable.

Goodness, I don’t mean 30% go to Teach for America. I meant “non profit” organizations, for example, Teach for America.
Why would anyone go to Harvard to end up in Teach for America. It’s prestigious because it’s well marketed. Who wants to go to some random place to teach for America? Those are weak students who had no job prospect. Look at all these latest reports about how the job market goes south, Teach for America goes up.<br>
Those that went to do Teach for America a few years back COULD NOT find a bank job. No one is that altruistic.</p>

[KitKatz]

<p>Areu: “Berkeley is unreasonably difficult”</p>

<p>Can someone confirm this? Not to sound elitist or something, but rather to put my situation in context, is Berkeley difficult for LS students who are at the top of their class and were accepted to one of HYP schools and Penn? Is Berkeley really that cut throat? I’ve always thought that ivy schools are more difficult because the range of academic performance of the students is not as wide as in Berkeley. </p>

<p>Right now, I think I’m 75% Berkeley… </p>

<p>And thank you SDTB, I’m glad you think so. I sure hope so! :)</p>

[mathboy98]

<p>

is Berkeley difficult for LS students who are at the top of their class and were accepted to one of HYP schools and Penn? Is Berkeley really that cut throat? I’ve always thought that ivy schools are more difficult because the range of academic performance of the students is not as wide as in Berkeley.

</p>

<p>There is a range, yes, at Berkeley. But realize that a large population of Berkeley, i.e. the population that will actually be your competition, consists of studious kids who may not have gotten into HYP type schools simply because their applications indicated they do one and only one thing well: study (no ECs, nothing else to sell to those schools). If you’re doing engineering, for instance, you will find some classes very challenging is my guess. </p>

<p>Not to sound elitist either, but I was first ranked in my high school class, in which several students got into HYPS, and I can say myself the average Berkeley class isn’t ridiculously difficult for me, but the classes I DO end up taking are very challenging for me. So you’ll certainly find things that aren’t too bad, but if you want, you can challenge yourself to no end. Many of the professors here were probably at the top of MIT or Harvard classes in their fields, and are absolutely freakishly genius-sorts of people, and some of them choose to run their classes in such a way that this is evident – so these classes will be pretty crazy!</p>

[KitKatz]

<p>^Okay, that’s somewhat comforting. I was afraid that it would be high school all over again. That’s kind of why I was leaning toward Penn for a long time; I thought that at least the majority of the students would be compatible to me or exceed my levels. I’m glad there’s competition but not cut throat all around. It would be no fun if there were no competition Nothing to drive me to my best ability, but I don’t want to be driven to the edge all the time either. Mathboy, I understand that your classes would be challenging because most of the best students there are science/engineering majors. But is it like that for poli sci classes? Maybe I just have to hang with the engineers :p</p>

[KitKatz]

<p>Thank you all for all the imputs and suggestions. Just letting you know, I’m all in for Berkeley!!! (sorry UPenn and Princeton although there is still a bit of bittersweet feeling in my heart as I said/typed this)</p>

<p>YAY for Berkeley Class o’ 2013!!! See you next year! Ha! :)</p>

[mathboy98]

<p>Awesome KitKatz! What convinced you? (Even if nothing on this thread).</p>

[KitKatz]

<p>Hmmm, the enthusiasm of this crowd :p, lol. But I’m serious. I was disconcerted about Berkeley at first because the only people I know who are going there are not nearly as serious about academics and are not quite as well qualified for an elite school as I would have liked. This thread changed my mind (of course I realized that some meaningful posts were contributions from alums of Penn). I feel if I were surrounded by people who can have civilized discussions like this without getting all defensive and demeaning and who are willing to compromise, then I would be at the right school. On the forums of other schools, there are a lot of bashing, smart a**ing, and argument, but not so much discussion like on this thread. Of course, you guys represent only a small percentage of the population, but still, at least this kind of student exist. Needless to say, I was very impressed :)</p>

<p>Aside from that lil jib, I also thought of the location. Philly will be too far from home and I want to be able to visit home more (I have a new baby sister so I want to see her as much as possible; I don’t want her to forget about her big sis! :)). I also know for sure that I like Cal and I definitely will like the weather much better (I’m not a fan of sweaty arm pit and frizzy haired summers and gloomy frost bite winters. Plus I like to wear dresses and go around barefoot and I’ll get more opportunities to do so at Cal than Penn. lol). The possiblities for internship opportunities comforted me; I thought there were next to none in comparison to Penn. My dad, who did not go to any HYPS levele schools but still landed a killer PhD and co-authored a organic chemistry research paper that was published in Nature (sorry, I’m proud of my daddy and like to have my bragging rights :)) told me that it doesn’t matter if I don’t go to an ivy. I just need to find good research/ intern opportunities. There are a lot of famous professors so plenty of opportunities. I know my abilities and if I bust my a** I will get myself that needed internship. Plus, I found out that there are several professors that I would like to do research with (even though there is no guarantee that such a thing would ever happen but going to Cal will definitely increase the chance). Also there is a $2k difference in cost. Plus, I heard Berkeley guys are fairly attractive lol but that’s very minor. Berkeley has great math, engineering and science departments and I absolutely love guys who are really good at math and physical sciences because they tend to be not so full of bs as people in other majors esp liberal arts. I just hope they are not too cocky sorry I’m ranting. But yeah, those are my reasons :)</p>

<p>Oh, lastly but definitely not least, Berkeley was my daddy’s dream school; he worshipped the School of Chemistry when he was young but because he would have been an international student and couldn’t score well enough on TOEFFL, he couldn’t attend. If I’m going to Cal, then I’m able to give him as much Cal gears as he want so he can dream that he really went there! ;)</p>

<p>I’m so excited for next year!</p>

[mathboy98]

<p>Interesting reasons! I’m sure your little sister will appreciate you for that.</p>

<p>Also, might I warn that this crowd may not be perfectly representative of the enormous population of Berkeley, though obviously it’ll be representative of some select portion. In a large school, it’s simply impossible to hang out with everyone, so you pretty much get to know as many people as you can early on, and kind of stick to them. The smarter people naturally tend to work with the smarter people after class, and friendships are formed. </p>

<p>My advice to you (as someone who’s been through this) is that people at Berkeley, just cuz it was hard for them, will try to scare you and say “Don’t sign up for so much! It’ll kill you, this isn’t high school anymore!” especially at the frosh orientation days, and you should flatly ignore such people unless you know and trust their opinions. </p>

<p>Sorry, I didn’t respond to your last post about political science (didn’t see it before now) – is that your intended major? Do you want to go to law school?</p>

[blueducky]

<p>Haha KitKatz, are you part of College of Chemistry too? I have a lot of respect for Berkeley chem as well…</p>

[KitKatz]

<p>ducky: Unfortunately no I didn’t didn’t want to do chemistry even though both of my parents are chemists. </p>

<p>Thanks for the advice mathboy, I’ll keep all that in mind. I sure hope she does! It’s good to know that smarter people tend to stick together. I’d really like that. I just hope that the horror stories I hear aren’t true. About people screwing over their “competitions”. haha That’s not a problem That’s the idea of it. I plan to go to either law school or go get a PhD. I’m not sure which one yet. I want to go into diplomacy, but I might like research better. I’ve always liked research better. But we’ll see, a lot can change in these 3-4 years. Also I have a question for you about AP credit. I heard that it’s actually restrictive. I have 8 AP test under my belt (all 4s and 5s) and 4 more by the end of this year; will I get credit for all of them? What is the policy on that?</p>

[rider730]

<p>Here is the guide from L&S <a href=“http://ls-advise.berkeley.edu/fp/EYD.pdf[/url]”>http://ls-advise.berkeley.edu/fp/EYD.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>See page 41. You can earn lots of units. Most of the AP tests give you either 5.3 or 2.7 units. These count towards your total needed for a degree and thus could shorten your time at Cal. They also make your status higher as far as priority for registration.</p>

<p>Some will waive the requirements for certain obligations at Cal - foreign langauge, quantitative reasoning, american history, and the reading and comprehension courses. </p>

<p>Some give you credit for pre-req courses so you can register for more advanced courses right away. Those decisions are made by the departments offering the advanced courses and not L&S wide, but many times you can.</p>

<p>There are some limits. some requisites for declaring a degree might not be accepted as an AP but only by taking the class itself. </p>

<p>In general, however, credit is pretty good for AP tests. Pre-meds have it worst, not because of Cal but because med schools tend to want the actual college level class and not AP credit, thus all those pre-reqs like Calc and Chem and Bio have to be taken as classes.</p>

[mathboy98]

<p>What the poster above me said, plus an additional little bonus KitKatz: the more units you have (including AP units, Berkeley units combined), the higher your class standing will be, i.e. whether you’re considered frosh, soph, junior, or senior level. The higher your level, the earlier your Telebears appointment comes (when your classes are selected). My roommate and I had senior level standing by around second semester freshman year or something, so that helped. If your classes are not ultra in demand, and your class level is high, your luck with getting your classes can be amazing. This is what the poster above me meant when saying:</p>

<p>

They also make your status higher as far as priority for registration.

</p>

<p>I think. </p>

<p>You’ll get a bunch of credit for your AP’s, though if you’re in the L&S College, the 7-course breadth requirements must be satisfied by classes in Berkeley. However, there are many, many things you can do to fulfill those, and you may find something interesting (or, if you’re like me, something really easy where you sit in class and do math instead of paying attention :)).</p>

<p>The smart people do stick together, especially if you’re doing something that isn’t pre-professional. Maybe pre-law + premed + prebusiness students don’t stick together so much, not sure. But as much as they blabber about EECS being a competitive engineering major, frankly it’s usually so hard that it’s not about petty points won through competition, it’s about trying to figure out hard material, and collaboration becomes pretty useful.</p>

<p>I myself met one of my good friends, now a senior, and I think the only Berkeley math undergraduate coming back to the very prestigious math Ph.D. program next year (who knows, maybe he’ll GSI for one of your classes!), in a course here, just by talking to him about class work, and we certainly have collaborated a lot. </p>

<p>Oh and a little biased note from me, TRY going down the research path! Pre-professional students can kinda drive me crazy with their attitudes at times. A friend of mine in MCB actually shuns the premeds in his class like the plague, and is randomly doing a math major upon my convincing him, and hangs out with engineers and math majors instead of those of his own kind, haha.</p>

[rider730]

<p>yes, that was what I was attempting to say, albeit poorly. Thank you mathboy for the elucidation of the benefits of advanced standing.</p>

[KitKatz]

<br>

@""

<p>Rider: Thanks a bundle! That website was really VERY helpful! Correct me if I’m wrong but with my credits should be the following according to that website:</p>

<br>

<p>English Language: 4 (5.3 cu)
French Language: 4 (5.3)
Chemistry: 4 (5.3)
French Lit: 4 (5.3)
Psychology: 5 (2.7)
Chinese: 5 (I’m guessing that one didn’t count for any credit…)
US Hist: 5 (5.3)
Euro Hist: 5 (5.3)
Biology: most likely a 5 (5.3)
Calculus AB: (dammit! I knew I should have not been so lazy and took BC! You get way more credit for BC than AB and there’s really not that much difference ): most likely a 5 ( (2.7)
English Lit: most likely 4/5 (What is R& C? Do I get more credit if I get a 5 to satisfy both semesters?)
Physics B: I’m self-studying for this one like I did for Chemistry and yeah…and it honestly is not clicking so maybe a 3? (5.3)
IB Visual Arts: 7 (I’m guessing 5.3 units? Dunno can’t find the website for ib test credits) </p>

<p>So I will have 53.1 semester units done? Am I wrong? And I will be a sophomore (30 cu), almost a junior (60 cu) standing person? Sweet! That is awesome! Glad I chose Berkeley. I’m so glad I’m not going to have to rot away in those huge GE and prerequisite classes!
A question about this statement written in the general information section of that page:
“These tests must have been taken before admission to the College of Letters and Science.”
So does that mean the ones I’m taking this year are useless?</p>

<br>

@""

<p>Mathboy: haha I might become just like your friend in MCB. lol. I’m already starting to shun a few people in LS. There are about 6-7 people at my school who will be going to Berkeley and they all want to room together. I didn’t really want to. So I told them that I would be going to room in a suite at foothills (I really am) and it was as if I pressed some magical button; they never spoke of rooming with me again. Although my best friend said that I should make some cs friends cuz I’m so terrible with computers (I broke about 3 computers in the past 2 years :p) that I would need some engineering/cs guys to help me out. So I hope they are friendly??? </p>

<br>

<p>Haha I do hope your friend will GSI for one of my math classes. If he’s going to do Calc and if he makes it interesting that is :). I’m not particularly fond of math; I think there’s too much memorizing formulas and stuff (although calculus is better than others), just like physics and chemistry and I get ****ed off by it. hence my major is not at all math oriented but I can definitely do math. </p>

<p>Actually, you don’t need to convince me. By deciding to go to Berkeley instead of UPenn already showed me that I am more inclined to do research than let’s say, pre-law and other professional studies. Throughout high school, I liked doing internship at a Californian Congressman’s office as a bill debriefing/research personnel than debating in speech and debate. I still want to do diplomacy though. I just really hope that I find students in the poli sci department who are really into academics. I didn’t get much of that from my school, hence why I never interested in school. I really hope that changed. If not, I guess I’ll find some good chemistry/engineering friends. I just hope that you guys don’t shun me or something :)</p>

<p>btw, what’s a 7-course breadth requirement?</p>