Berkeley vs USC (vs Brown & UChicago)

Colleges & Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

Hi all,

I’m currently in the process of making an extremely tough decision between some great schools. I was accepted at Berkeley and USC, and waitlisted at Brown and UChicago (I know that my chances of getting of the waitlist are probably not great, but I would like to decide wether or not to withdraw from those waitlists). My family wants me to go to USC, where my sister is currently a student.

At Berkeley, I would be studying L&S CS. At the other schools, I would be studying Economics. I’m very interested in both majors.

In terms of what’s important to me, this is the list:

  1. Prestige & job opportunities
  2. Education quality
  3. Social life & campus vibe
  4. Location
  5. Cost & finances

I’m leaning towards Berkeley, because I know it’s probably the school with the best reputation worldwide, except for maybe UChicago. My father owns a software company in India and he tells me that Harvard, MIT, and Berkeley are the three biggest names outside of America.

I’m a Southern California resident, but I attend a boarding school in New England and I have lived in the Midwest before, so none of these places will be a brand new experience. However, if I had to choose, I would prefer California or Rhode Island to Illinois.

I know that rankings are not a very good indicator, but UChicago is ranked the highest for Econ according to the USNWR. Berkeley is the highest for CS. Brown’s status as an Ivy League does give it some allure (my school has never sent anyone to an Ivy before - and it’s been around since the 1880s).

My biggest concern is Berkeley’s budget and size. I know that signing up for classes is a competition at public schools and since I don’t have regents, that will be an issue. I also know that Berkeley, USC, and UChicago will also be less flexible than Brown.

TL;DR: Berkeley (CS) or USC/Brown/UChicago (Econ)? Any help would be appreciated.

2

Well, do you want to major in economics or CS? All of them should be fine for either CS or economics, but there are some differences between them. Where do you want to work, and in what field?

Be aware that, at Berkeley, L&S CS requires a 3.3 GPA in the prerequisites to declare, and economics requires a 3.0 GPA in the prerequisites to declare.

Berkeley offers a typical-math (single variable calculus) and a high-math (multivariable calculus and linear algebra, recommended if you want to go to PhD study in economics, where more advanced math like real analysis is also recommended) version of intermediate economics courses. Chicago only offers the high-math version. USC only offers the typical-math version.

Net price at each school?

3

Given that you’re doing L&S CS at Berkeley (which means you’re technically undeclared until you meet the GPA requirement), I’m going to take it as if you were comparing all 4 to an equal major (econ, and HAAS isn’t bad either).

If we’re assuming you don’t get into UChicago or Brown, definitely go to Berkeley. Berkeley is (in my opinion) a much better school than USC (in both CS AND econ). The prestige is better (vs. University of Spoiled Children/Second Choice), job opportunities are notably better (Silicon Valley). Education quality is definitely much better. (Heck, USC even has a reputation for no one going to classes). Social life and campus vibe, I would say at the base, USC wins, but (and I’m Berkeley biased, I admit) if you know how the Berkeley system works (cough, Greek life), your social life will be just fine. In fact, the people you know at Berkeley will probably go on to become influential people, so :^). Location? Well, both are in the ghetto and in California. USC is probably better, but you can’t go wrong with either. And cost? Berkeley. We all know how USC works.

Including the other two schools, it really just goes down to what you want. Berkeley for CS, and Chicago for econ, is what I would do. If I didn’t get into UChicago but Brown, that’s okay too. But you’ll have to make the decision between if you want to do CS or Econ.

Tl;dr; Berkeley for CS, USC for econ if you don’t get in waitlist. If you get in waitlist, UChicago > Brown imo, but no real big difference. I can’t recommend between cs and econ, but I would argue that cs has better opportunities right now at Silicon Valley. But you can’t go wrong w’ either.

4

Of course, between Chicago and Brown, Chicago has extensive general education core requirements, while Brown has none (except for engineering majors). Would that matter to you if you were admitted to those schools?

5

@ucbalumnus Thanks - Brown’s flexibility and open curriculum are appealing, but they are not something I couldn’t live without. I also do think that there’s something to like about Chicago’s core curriculum as it gives everyone a sort of common ground.

And with regard to your previous question, the net price for Berkeley would be around $5,000 a year. The private schools would be much higher, at around $25,000-30,000 a year. However, this is not a central concern and my family is willing pay more for a better school.

@mikuru Thanks for the help. I also prefer Berkeley to USC, so I think you helped settle that comparison. I understand that you believe UChicago would be preferable to Brown, but what about in comparison to Berkeley? Do you think either of those schools is preferable to Berkeley (let’s assume an econ major at all schools, just to make it easy).

As you said, “UChicago > Brown”. But is Brown > Berkeley or UChicago > Berkeley?

6

Personally, I don’t know much about Brown (I only have a close friend who just got accepted). I was accepted to both Berkeley and UChicago, but…

I can’t recommend one over the other, since what you want to major in is ultimately up to you. What I personally believe is that for the two majors you mentioned (CompSci and Econ), Berkeley and UChicago will be better, respectively, than Brown. Berkeley’s CompSci program is tied with Stanford (second only to MIT), and UChicago is arguably the best (though UPenn is great too). I wouldn’t recommend Brown over either of those two for your majors.

If, reading what you said, assuming econ major, UChicago is definitely preferable over Berkeley (UChicago’s econ program is, iirc, rank #1, or maybe tied w’ UPenn), but since you’re L&S CS -aka undeclared- at Berkeley, if you wanted to do BOTH CS and Econ, then Berkeley is by far the winner. (HAAS is still pretty good).

Just because your school hasn’t sent anyone to an Ivy doesn’t mean you should go. Do what’s best for you ^^.

tl;dr; Brown isn’t the best for CompSci or Econ. UChicago > Berk for Econ only, but Berk > UChi if you wanted to dual major in Econ and CS. And you can’t go wrong with either ^^. You’ll have a good future no matter where you go.

7

I am a Berkeley graduate (but decades ago). Even during that time it was a true nightmare to get into classes (waitlists, etc). If the CS is that crowded / impacted right now – I would be very concerned about the overall experience going through not only the workload stress, but also the additional stress of trying to get a “reasonable” schedule (It is quite frustrating … )

If you are a California resident, the price tag may be such a great value that it is possibly worthy to go through this nightmare. However, if you are indifferent about pricing, then Brown would be probably be a better option. (UChicago is too small and offered courses and opportunities are relatively limited compared with the other choices you have).

8

Which course registration system did you have to use?

I do not recall having issues getting desired courses a few decades ago (when a system involving filling in bubbles on bubble sheets to indicate what courses you wanted was being used), although I was willing to take early morning classes.

9

Well, between Berkeley and USC:

  • In terms of prestige, to the general public USC is probably as prestigious as Berkeley because (try not to laugh) of the SC football program -- everyone knows those Trojans. In academic and hiring circles, SC is impressive... but Berkeley wins that matchup.
  • USC is pretty good academically, but Berkeley is great -- based on the faculty, the research, and the number of top-notch programs. In CS, Berkeley is the clear leader. For Econ you could go either way. Do keep in mind, for some perspective: both have enough resources to overwhelm the most ravenous undergraduate appetite for knowledge, so these comparisons -- while perhaps true -- might not reflect the level of education you will actually receive. In other words, both will teach you plenty regardless of whether you choose Econ, CS, or something else.
  • Maybe more important academic considerations are the ease of getting into your desired major and then, once in it, the degree requirements. Also check class sizes during your general ed requirements (100-200 level classes) -- while most classes within your major will tend to be relatively small and will become smaller as you progress, Intro classes generally are large. If class size is important to you, try to find out how large those Intro classes typically are at each school.
  • Don't underestimate the importance of dorm rooms, campus food, social vibe, logistics/transportation, and the availability of cool things to do -- you have to live there for (at least) four years, after all. Probably at least half of that time will be spent doing things not related to academics, so take a hard look at which place would make a better home.

Obviously if you come off the WL at Chicago and/or Brown, things may change. Keep contingencies in mind. But also prepare to be ready to make the choice between Berkeley and USC.

All four are obviously excellent schools presenting wonderful opportunities. If you pick the best fit for you and are willing to work, you’ll thrive.

10

Thank you for your comments. My young adult is also deciding between Berkeley and USC. Interests are: business, film, and theater and probably a career that combines all of these. We are from LA, so I like the idea of student going to Berkeley for the experience and good academic foundation. However, interests seem more to be in line with programs offered at USC. Any feedback is appreciated. And is the higher tuition at USC worth it?

11

@Ninchen I’m from Los Angeles as well and I’m also very interested in Film and Business (I plan on applying for an MBA program after my undergraduate program). However, I’m planning on getting a bachelor’s in CS.

My sister loves USC and is very happy there. She is pursuing a criminal justice degree. My sister transferred to USC from Vanderbilt and in comparison, my parents prefer Vanderbilt because they feel it is less money-oriented than USC. I’m not sure how USC compares to Berkeley in that regard, but my parents don’t like how blatantly cash-driven USC is. My sister also wanted to be close to home, but I would like a little distance for my college experience.

My father, who owns a business in India which works in both software engineering and film told me that the most well known Universities overseas are Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Berkeley (also Oxford and Cambridge). Also, he believes that a Business degree from Haas is more prestigious than one from Marshall (although Marshall is no joke). If rankings matter to you, the USNWR rankings for undergrad business put Haas at #2 with MIT, second only to Wharton (where my father earned his MBA). Marshall is at #10.

USC has an advantage in its film school and while the film scene in the Bay Area is not as huge as it is LA, it is still significant and may even be a better atmosphere if your son is interested in indie filmmaking. LA has become stifling for people who don’t have a huge budget. I’ve had many experiences in the past where a police officers asked me to stop filming because I didn’t have a ridiculously expensive permit.

Based on the advice given by the posters above and what my father told me, I chose to deposit at Berkeley while I wait for my waitlist results. At this point, I’m almost certain I’ll go to Berkeley even if I was admitted at either Brown or Chicago.

12

@humanperson
If you’re interested in later doing an MBA, you should do the “legendary” Hass/CS double major. According to caliber magazine, this will allow you to pick up girls at parties (source: http://calibermag.org/articles/i-knew-you-were-trouble-the-■■■■■■■■-of-cal/).

But seriously, if you’re doing CS, Berkeley is really the best.

13

@humanperson
My son is close to deciding on Berkeley. Gorgeous campus in an exquisite city with top reputation. We are all pretty psyched about it!!