<p>Throughout most of these threads I have noticed that half of your compare cal to ivy league standards while the other half dismiss it and put it at a lower standing. Just curious to hear your reasons for whether you think it is comparable to ivy league in specific academic areas.</p>
<p>In terms of the quality of the average student, I would give the upper Ivy-league an edge because it does not need to take a set % from a certain state; however, Cal is so big that it probably has more people overall who are of the same caliber of Ivy students. I don't know much about its undergrad programs, but its graduate programs rank second only to Stanford in the number that score in the top 5 IIRC, which certainly warrents it a good reputation.</p>
<p>in terms of undergrad, i'd say a notch below the ivies... compare Cal's SAT scores with Ivies.' But Cal is king for grad.</p>
<p>Agree. Cal's undergrads are on average of a lower caliber than those at Ivies, since Cal's avg. SAT scores are around 1300 whereas those at Ivies range from upper 1300s to upper 1400s. Cal is among the best in grad schools, though.</p>
<p>Do you think that some major within the undergraduate department are regarded more highly than others?</p>
<p>No doubt EECS is more highly regarded than American Studies. But that's going to be the case at any school, no?</p>
<p>Be careful when one compares average scores. Bcos Cal is so big it has many more 1500's and 4.0's than some Ivies. Of the ~8,000 admits to Cal, 2,000 (25%) had SAT scores above 1440. Assuming the matriculation rate had similar stats, then approx 1,000 kids (25% of 1k) who enrolled had >1440. Contrast that to the complete size of Harvard's matriculating class (including football and hockey players), which is 1,600. Dartmouth has approx. 1,000 kids per class.</p>
<p>Also, the UC's are SAT-centric (but will accept ACT), in that the vast majority of kids take the SAT, whereas the Ivies likely have more balance between the two tests (the midwest is ACT-centric).</p>
<p>"Be careful when one compares average scores. Bcos Cal is so big it has many more 1500's and 4.0's than some Ivies."</p>
<p>If there are indeed many people at Berkeley who are ivy-caliber, there must also be MANY MORE people who are really dumb and aren't even college material. After all, if you take the argument that berkeley is huge and therefore must have tons of smart kids, we can't ignore the vast multitudes on the other side of the spectrum can we? </p>
<p>How would it feel to be in an English class with a Berkeley student who doesn't even know how to write an essay? Or be in a math class with somebody who doesn't understand fractions and ratios?</p>
<p>Berkeley accepts as many people who score 800's on the SAT's as they accept people who score 1500s.</p>
<p>bluebayou,
That is why we consider 'average' scores...
And it is plainly obvious to me that a larger school has a 'larger number' (not larger percentage) of high SAT scorers. (Ex.: Even though the avg. is lower, Michigan will obviously have a larger # of 1500s SAT scorers than Caltech does...) This is why we've got to consider the percentage, not the numbers.
Also... we are not assuming something, we're just looking at the plain facts.</p>
<p>ubermensch,
Although I believe that Cal's undergrads are overall lower than students at Ivies, most of them are not dumb, either.
We've got to consider that 99% of Berkeley's incoming freshmen were in the top 10% of HS... certainly not to be considered dumb.</p>
<p>Ummm...no, Berkeley does <em>not</em> accept as many people who score 800's on the SAT's as 1500's.</p>
<p>I think UVA, Berkeley, and UMich are respected as schools smart students can realistically get into. Other schools like Stanford, MIT, and the ivies are so impossibly hard to get into that they have become almost like myths and legends. Nobody REAL goes to those schools anyways.</p>
<p>I have taken classes in an Ivy with students who were not the brightest but were there because there was a building named after their family or because their dad was a professor at the Law School, or because they could do something else in a different field that was breath takingly brilliant. I was not the brightest student in all of my classes either, but what I found to be important was that there were some brilliant people in all of my classes. Students who ask an interesting question, share a unique take on an issue being discussed, and who show an appreciation for learning are critical to a great school. I think Berkeley has its share of these students and their are opportunities to learn on that campus. </p>
<p>Would Berkeley improve if they reduced the number of students with SAT's under 1300 is a debatable question. California has its share of non-english speaking households and students who come from these homes and graduate in the top 10% of their high school usually have something to offer. The campus is overcrowded and deserving of more public support.</p>
<p>Also...UCs take best sitting right...not best scores</p>
<p>Berkeley is not ivy-caliber. The student body is measurably weaker than the student bodies of the ivies, and the classes are so huge that they are not conducive to learning at all. People with subpar SAT scores can get into Berkeley when they would never be considered at ivy-caliber schools. </p>
<p>In California, Berkeley takes whatever Stanford and Caltech don't want. In terms of the nation as a whole, Berkeley is about as strong as a Johns Hopkins or Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>rooster08</p>
<p>Your analysis of the SAT score breakdown is pretty far off...</p>
<p>rooster clearly doesn't learn much in his Stanford math classes where everyone gets an A for effort.</p>
<p>iamhung,
I don't see anything special with that link you've provided. That is just as I've expected.
SAT 1400+: 1182 students, 1400-: 2467 students. Nothing spectacular with this.
On average, it is still lower than any of the Ivies, Stanford and Caltech.</p>
<p>The clearest and easiest way to look at the SATs for Berkeley: 1190-1440 (US News) which leads to a median score of 1315, which is definitely not low but lower than that of the very top private schools.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley accepts as many people who score 800's on the SAT's as they accept people who score 1500s.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The link was in response to ubermensch's post...</p>
<p>Something interesting to keep in mind is that Berkeley may be de-emphasizing the SATs on purpose. In the late 80s/early 90s Berkeley, moreso than perhaps any college in the entire US, relied on the SATs for admissions. Now they are trying to "make up" for their reputation they gained in the previous decade...</p>