<p>editeditedit</p>
<p>Well if you think that Cal is below Ivy standard then how come it is ranked 2nd in the world, number 2 in engineering for undergrads and #3 in business?</p>
<p>I thought Berkeley was ranked #21 by US News and is ranked #28 or so by the revealed preference ranking.</p>
<p>Well, if you're from Cali, you realize that it doesn't take much to get into Berkeley. Most people are wary of Berkeley grads....are they smart, or just average? You get as many average students as smart students, so the overall reputation is not as good as it could be. At the Ivy league, you just know that everyone is smart, because there are no back doors into them. There are a lot of ways to get into the UCs...many of them have more community college tranfers than regular students!</p>
<p>Aside from that, Berkeley is a good, cheap education if you live within 100 miles of it!!</p>
<p>There are no back doors into them? Wow, I guess George Bush got in on his smarts alone.</p>
<p>"There are a lot of ways to get into the UCs...many of them have more community college tranfers than regular students!"</p>
<p>that is a bunch of bull****. community college transfers make up only a small percentage of the campus population. besides, why are u looking down at community college transfers? who said they were dumb or couldnt get into a UC in the first place? some of these kids really needed to save money by staying home, or perhaps they were not mature enough/ready to leave for college yet. but doesnt meant they arent smart. in the end, they are still berkeley graduates and are successful. if u meet a berkeley graduate, you wont be able to tell whether or not he/she spent 4 years there or 2 years there.</p>
<p>"Wow, I guess George Bush got in on his smarts alone."</p>
<p>Yeah, I am sure Yale made a huge mistake admitting the future president of the United States. Oh man, he is SOOOOO unqualified. He only managed to get the majority of Americans to vote for him in 2004. Geez, he certainly isn't good enough to go to Yale and Harvard Business School. </p>
<p>Listen, I am a die-hard liberal and I HATE George Bush. I think he is a murderous, trecherous, conservative jackass. But Yale certainly did not make a mistake when they admitted him. I would admit the future president of the United States to my school over an 800 SAT community college transfer that will probably end up dropping out of Berkeley and eventually work as a security guard.</p>
<p>Rooster, I don't think Yale has a crystal ball predicting future career paths, so I doubt they knew he was a future president when they accepted him. They probably did know his family though. Family affiliation can help people get into schools and into jobs. </p>
<p>I went to a school on the other coast but know Berkeley is highly regarded in this and many countries. I also know that Ivy schools do accept students with questionable academic credentials. I have tutored classmates whose parents were employees (Law Professor) and who had a building on campus named after a relative and they needed help, but I wouldn't say they didn't make a contribution to the school. I am sure there are students like this at Stanford and Berkeley. We are more than test scores. You and I might score higher on a standardized test than Edison could, it doesn't mean we are better than him or that our contributions will be as great.</p>
<p>If you think you look taller by calling other people short, you are wrong.</p>
<p>No backdoors into the ivies eh?... then I wonder what you call legacies....</p>
<p>Berkeley undergrad certainly has its weaknesses. However, there are specific departments within Berkeley undergrad that are just as strong or stronger than ivy league counterparts. The Berkeley engineering department would no doubt kick all of the ivy league's a$$ (not MIT,CAltech,Stanford... obviously MIT,CIT and Stanford has an edge over Berk when it comes to recruiting undergrads). Not to mention its undergrad poli sci and business departments are also very very strong(at or around ivy league caliber). However, other than these very strong undergrad departments, Berkeley has a set of good but not great undergrad programs and that is really where a great bulk of mediocre Berkeley students are enrolled. If we choose to compare great programs, Berkeley is easily at Ivy League level, but if we choose to compare complete universities, Berkeley's undergrad is overall is slightly below that of the ivy leagues.</p>
<p>"Berkeley undergrad certainly has its weaknesses. However, there are specific departments within Berkeley undergrad that are just as strong or stronger than ivy league counterparts."</p>
<p>Well, the prestige of an institution is a combination of ugrad+grad performance. The grad half of Berkeley is excellent, but the ugrad half is horrendous (due to the guaranteed community college transfer system)! As it is, the ugrad students have lower performance than any Ivy when you look at regular admits....the performance gets much worse when CC student transfers are thrown into the mix...I don't even think Berkeley releases those numbers, but every student in Cali knows that they can get into Berkeley if they can afford living away from home for a few years....usually the problem is $$$, since anyone with a decent CC GPA can transfer into UCB.</p>
<p>I'm not attacking Berkeley the school (which is quite good), but I'm just pointing out that anyone with a Berk degree needs double-checking, whereas Ivy students typically are assumed to be cream of the crop. </p>
<p>Also, another point about Berkeley is that they are losing professors left and right....not a good sign if you ask me.</p>
<p>golubb_u,
Berkeley undergrad is not horrendous, at least...
Although the average SAT score at Berkeley is lower than any of the Ivies, it is actually pretty high (around 1300). Moreover, you've got to consider that 99% of Berkeley freshmen come from the top 10% of their HS graduating class, which tells that the majority of Berkeley students are quite qualified.</p>
<p>"Although the average SAT score at Berkeley is lower than any of the Ivies, it is actually pretty high (around 1300). "</p>
<p>That's exactly what I'm saying...it's only 1300 for the "incoming students" that get admitted in the initial rounds. 1/3 of the student body is tranfer students, whose SAT is waaayyy lower than the regular students', so the overall SAT score could be as low as 1100.</p>
<p>I heard on NPR last week a very popular class at Harvard had 425 students. Cornell has some basic classes of 700.</p>
<p>For under grad. Ivy schools are much better.</p>
<p>If you apply Ivy schools at say SAT 1500, your chance is below 20%.
I think Ivy schools pick up 20% of student from high 1300 up to 1500.
Nobody can predict he can get into ivy schools with only high academic record. But if you are top 10% of HS and 1500+ SAT, almost 100% sure you will be accepted by Berkeley. I think if you really want to get into Ivy schools, besides good academic record, you have to show that you have very strong EC or AI. The students accepted by Ivy schools, They should have better leadership on average. </p>
<p>For grad. school, it will be different story. Berkeley is one of the best around the world.</p>
<p>What about Cornell? Just looking at the stats of its students, the school doesn't look too impressive for an Ivy.
I've heard that it is the easiest among the Ivies to get into...
Wouldn't a student with a 1500+, top 10% get in there with ease?
Forgive me if I'm wrong. I actually don't know the specifics about the school.</p>
<p>well now that most of you have truely decimated a university, do you think it is better than say usc, a pretty good PRIVATE university?</p>
<p>I guess Berkeley is slightly better than USC.
(And you meant by USC U. of Southern Cal., right?)</p>
<p>Yes, southern california. How can you think it is only slightly better when Cal has recieved so many positive ratings (now #2 in the world according to Britain Times), and in the top of engineering and business which are pretty dissimilar subjects. A university that is ranked at the top at two pretty broad disciplines shows that it has such a comprehensive academic quality in many departments.</p>
<p>Cornell is the safety of Ivy.
Their accpetance rate was 29% for 2003.
I think with 10% top public school and 1500+ SAT you still need to have at least 2 or three of following ECs:
Sport
Community service
Arts ( Piano, Viola, Violin, Cello, bendr so)
Leadership (President of something)
Debay
Award of something</p>
<p>plus at least 3 SATII (including wirtting) should not below 2100.</p>
<p>and some AP courses </p>
<p>Then you wliii have 50% ro chance</p>
<p>Berkeley considers more things like low income and coming from a disadvantaged high school.</p>
<p>However Berkeley does have its strong points in certain departments, but overall I would choose Ivys over Berkeley for undergraduate.</p>
<p>However for graduate studies, berkeley is top notch. They also open the playing field alittle more and take in more out of state students and focus more on experience/academics.</p>