Bernie Machen knows best?

[lizard]

<p>Unconfidential confidential survey completed by UF President Bernie Machen that is kind of interesting: </p>

<p>University</a> of Florida President Bernie Machen places his school among the most distinguished universities in the United States. Other Florida universities get poor ratings. | Gainesville.com | The Gainesville Sun | Gainesville, FL</p>

[parent2noles]

<p>Maybe Bernie is just biased?</p>

[sunnyflorida]

<p>The article was interesting. Not so much that Bernie did what he did, but that other University presidents would rate their own program a 5 and every other distinguished program a 3 to try to game the system. For Bernie to rank UF 5 and no other school in Florida better than a 3… Come on. He is showing his true colors. Can he rank his own U high–sure. But he did not rank UM or FSU honestly. He dropped them a notch to better his own school’s ranking.</p>

[etherdome]

<p>Machen is human and wants his school to be seen in the brightest possible light. I like his attitude, even if he doesn’t sound like an ethical man. </p>

<p>This is a crushing indictment against US&NWR’s system of ranking Universities. I believe that Presidents’ opinions count for twenty percent of the final score. If that is so, the rankings are severely compromised. </p>

<p>To get a clearer picture of a University, in-coming freshman should take a standardized test. Then, have graduating seniors do the same. Compare the two scores and find out which University raises scores the most. Once again, this would be over simplification, but it would be a more objective way to judge an institution’s quality. Would anyone be shocked to see better scores coming out of Eckerd College than UF? I wouldn’t.</p>

<p>My son is a rising senior in high school. We are trying to find the best college for him and our budget. The USN&WR rankings do little to help us. I guess we are going to have to evaluate the colleges by talking to employers and former students. Can anyone suggest a better method?</p>

[lizard]

<p>Attached is the entire survey completed by Machen. The survey is so bogus, and renders the US News rankings a joke and next to complete farce.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.gainesville.com/assets/pdf/GS17003616.PDF[/url]”>http://www.gainesville.com/assets/pdf/GS17003616.PDF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[rodfrommiami]

<p>am I the only one who thinks this is dumb? does anyone really care what bechan has to say?</p>

[lizard]

<p>I don’t care what Machen says. In fact, he didn’t say anything–he filled in a “secret” survey and when he was asked about it he declined to comment. I just think it crazy the way so many people rely on the US News College Rankings in evaluating colleges and in making decisions on which college to attend when the rankings are so subjective and just plain flawed. It’s dumb.</p>

[IntangibleGator]

<p>Looks pretty accurate to me.</p>

[etherdome]

<p>Looks pretty accurate to me.</p>

<p>I-Gator, I have no dog in this fight. I am a G Tech grad. However, answers like yours make me want my son to avoid UF like the plague. </p>

<p>This is not about Machen’s opinions; it is about the importance given to a magazine’s rankings. The fact of the matter is that the ranking system used by USN&WR is severely flawed. </p>

<p>So I-Gator, please summon some of that UF knowledge and add something to this discussion.</p>

[IntangibleGator]

<p>Okay that was hyperbole, but Machen is just doing what other schools do to manipulate the rankings. He has already stated he wants UF to be a top 10 public university. To accomplish this, his rankings reflect his desire to achieve this goal.</p>

<p>Florida obviously isn’t on the same degree as Harvard or Princeton, but you really can’t blame Machen for trying to further his university at the slight expense of others, a strategy most universities employ in such rankings.</p>

<p>Noles shouldn’t be that infuriated. Machen ranked FSU the same level as Notre Dame, Georgetown, and several other good universities.</p>

[sunnyflorida]

<p>Manipulation is the key word here. The peer rankings are BS and just the result of manipulation by U presidents. I think you should be given a rank sheet where you can rank everyone but yourself. There would still be cronyisms and you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours, but it would be a bit better. For a president to rank his program a 5 along with 3-4 others, and a few 4.s, manipulation.</p>

[parent2noles]

<p>Aren’t the peer rankings the largest single portion of the US News ratings?</p>

[Jman2306]

<p>

To get a clearer picture of a University, in-coming freshman should take a standardized test. Then, have graduating seniors do the same. Compare the two scores and find out which University raises scores the most. Once again, this would be over simplification, but it would be a more objective way to judge an institution’s quality. Would anyone be shocked to see better scores coming out of Eckerd College than UF? I wouldn’t.

</p>

<p>How do the test scores of incoming students equate to the academic quality of a college? How does this correlate with quality of teachers, etc.?</p>

[etherdome]

<p>If you test freshman, you get an objective look at what knowledge they bring to the university. Once they have completed their studies, the test is taken again and the scores will reflect what the students have learned. I admit that it is a blunt tool, but it is far better than simply asking presidents to give their opinions of other institutions. </p>

<p>If you want to ask for opinions, try asking employers. If you want to evaluate creative writing degrees, ask readers. All of this sounds silly, but is it any more silly than asking a president?</p>

[etherdome]

<p>IntangibleGator, </p>

<p>You are absolutely right. Machen was simply looking out for his school. I don’t have a problem with him. I have a major problem with US&NWR. Many quality schools are refusing to take part in the survey. I say “it is about time.”</p>

[etherdome]

<p>I believe that peer reviews count for 25% of the total score. </p>

<p>Opinions should count no more than 5%, if at all. Of course, that is only my opinion.</p>

[parent2noles]

<p>The peer review appears to count 40%.

The academic peer review is the centerpiece of these rankings, which are based on data from THE-QS World University Rankings, produced in association with QS Quacquarelli Symonds. The academic peer review carries a weighting of 40 percent of the university’s overall score. It is the ranking indicator that attracts the greatest interest and the greatest scrutiny.</p>

<p>The final academic peer review scores are compiled based on three years’ worth of responses from academics around the world to an online survey.

See: [Academic</a> Peer Review - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-colleges/2008/11/20/academic-peer-review.html]Academic”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-colleges/2008/11/20/academic-peer-review.html)</p>

<p>So Bernie overrates UF and underrates FSU and likely Miami. Sales bit for his job?</p>

[rockerguyasj]

<p>parents2nole, that’s the old calculation. The most updated one is:</p>

<p>

Peer assessment <a href=“weighting:%2025%20percent”>B</a>. The U.S. News ranking formula gives greatest weight to the opinions of those in a position to judge a school’s undergraduate academic excellence.** The peer assessment survey allows the top academics we consult—presidents, provosts, and deans of admissions—to account for intangibles such as faculty dedication to teaching. Each individual is asked to rate peer schools’ academic programs on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). Those who don’t know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly are asked to mark “don’t know.” Synovate, an opinion-research firm based near Chicago, in spring 2008 collected the data; of the 4,272 people who were sent questionnaires, 46 percent responded.

</p>

<p>[How</a> We Calculate the Rankings - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2008/08/21/how-we-calculate-the-rankings.html?PageNr=2]How”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2008/08/21/how-we-calculate-the-rankings.html?PageNr=2)</p>

[Jman2306]

<p>

If you test freshman, you get an objective look at what knowledge they bring to the university. Once they have completed their studies, the test is taken again and the scores will reflect what the students have learned. I admit that it is a blunt tool, but it is far better than simply asking presidents to give their opinions of other institutions.

</p>

<p>Well that would be ideal but not possible.</p>

[etherdome]

<p>How can a provost judge another school’s dedication to teaching? This is ridiculous. You simply can not allow for pride and prejudice to affect the rankings.</p>