Best fit?

Prep School Admissions
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<p>My sons are looking into top-ten boarding schools as my diplomacy career takes me to places without acceptable school options. There is a lot of discussion on this board about choosing the school with the right fit but, having no experience with boarding schools, this doesn’t guide us very well. Perhaps someone can give me a summary of the characteristics of some of the top-ten schools. For context, here is a little background on my sons. They are Americans who have lived several years in developing countries. They would prefer a school without a strong religious affiliation. Both boys are very strong in Math and Science. My older son is especially good at writing, public speaking, and generally understanding and debating complicated ideas. He is a very strong soccer player with interest in playing in college. He is by nature a generalist and is able to converse intelligently on a wide range of topics. My younger son is very STEM oriented with interest in an academic career in the hard sciences or engineering. He has great attention to detail and ability to build things with his hands. He gets very interested in a specific topic and learns it exhaustively. </p>

<p>From what I’ve read, it seems that Exeter might be the best choice for my younger son because it appears to be the most STEM oriented. Is there any better choice he should look into? What schools would you recommend for my older son? Would the Harkness method at Exeter be a good fit given his strength at verbal communication?</p>

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<p>The only advice I have is to drop the notion of “top-ten” as it may limit your scope, and you may miss schools that are better fits for your kids in the pursuit of a “name brand”.</p>

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<p>Fair enough. I don’t have any interest in a brand name. My natural concern in sending serious, independent workers (in both school and sports) off to boarding school is that they will spend a lot of time with kids with a different work ethic and this will rub off on them. While I’m sure it is an imperfect measure, admissions selectivity seems like as good a proxy as any to identify schools with the most serious students. If you have a better method of narrowing down my choices (keeping in mind that we will have very limited ability to visit schools), let me know. The alternative is homeschooling through Johns Hopkins CTY which we’ve tried off-and-on and they’re perfectly happy to continue. Since we have this good alternative, we are only interested in first choice schools and don’t feel a need to apply to a wide range of schools.</p>

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<p>I agree with SevenDad, but would encourage the OP to consider Exeter as one of many possible good fits for his older son. Communication skills are essential to survival at Exeter . . . and older son’s skills at writing, public speaking, and “understanding and debating complicated ideas” might make Exeter a very good fit for him.</p>

<p>As for younger son, if he is interested in pursuing engineering projects while at boarding school, I think there are several schools that would give him far greater opportunities than he might find at Exeter. St. Paul’s is one, with its absolutely stellar robotics program. Choate is another. But, really, there are many, many schools that provide exciting opportunities in math, science and engineering, and they are not limited to the “top ten” schools discussed most frequently in this forum!</p>

<p>And, I would also encourage the OP not to dismiss any school merely because it has “St. something-or-other” in its name. Religious affiliation does not necessarily mean a heavy-handedness about religion. When my son was looking at different schools last year, he considered several “St.” schools, as well as at least three - no, four! - other schools that were founded on religious principles. None of these required him to study or become an adherent of any particular religion.</p>

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<p>@ the OP (original poster): Don’t get me wrong, two of my best friends (and two of the smartest people I know) are Exeter grads. And they went on to do dual degree programs at Penn (one in 3 years!) afterward. Both smart and driven guys. Because of them, Exeter was high on our list early on, but it just didn’t click for our family on our visit.</p>

<p>EXCERPT FROM A MUCH LONGER POST IN THE PARENTS SECTION:
How we chose schools during our initial round of inquiries
Early in the process, I was lucky to meet, semi-randomly, someone who works at a boarding school. An excerpt of an email this person sent me follows below. The list was based on my description of my daughter’s strengths, weaknesses, and interests.</p>

<p>“Here are my picks for mid-Atlantic region boarding schools:</p>

<p>Lawrenceville - NJ
St. Andrew’s - DE
Peddie - NJ
Episcopal - VA
Madeira (all girls) - VA</p>

<p>Here are my picks for LARGE-SIZE academic-focused New England boarding schools:</p>

<p>Exeter - NH
Andover - MA
Choate - CT
Milton - MA</p>

<p>Here are my picks for MEDIUM-SIZE academic-focused New England boarding schools:</p>

<p>St. Paul’s - NH
Hotchkiss - CT
Loomis-Chaffee - CT
Middlesex - MA</p>

<p>Here are my picks for SMALL-SIZE academic-focused New England boarding schools:</p>

<p>Groton - MA
Miss Porter’s (all girls)- CT"</p>

<p>Though by no means comprehensive, this list was a great starting point. And the 3 schools my daughter ended up applying to all came from it.</p>

<p>Link to that thread, which chronicles our entire BS search/application/selection process last year:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1174214-one-family-s-bs-search-application-process-start-finish.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1174214-one-family-s-bs-search-application-process-start-finish.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>MiguelLerdo wrote

</p>

<p>I love this comment! There are two problems with it, though.</p>

<p>The first is that there’s really no way to screen for schools with “serious, hardworking” students. No matter what big name school you choose, some of the students will have gotten in because they are hardworking . . . and others will have gotten in because, despite being lazy bums, they are nonetheless amazingly bright and articulate and can succeed in challenging settings with a minimum of effort. So your student will always encounter kids, no matter what school they attend, who have the potential to be a “bad influence” on them.</p>

<p>The second problem with your comment is that what you see as a bad outcome, I see as a good outcome. Your kids should have the opportunity to experiment with “alternative” ways of approaching their work. And they’ll discover, early on, that failure isn’t a lot of fun! And they’ll straighten up and become more diligent. That is one of the really great advantages of boarding school . . . kids are placed in a situation with a LOT more distractions than they ever had at home and, through trial and error, they figure out how to function in that setting. By the time they head off to college, there’s not much that can unsettle them.</p>

<p>Relax . . . I understand that you want your kids to be around other kids who are just as motivated as they are, but you should start by looking into as many schools as you can - don’t limit yourself to the top schools right off the bat. Then gradually narrow down your list to the ones that look the most interesting. At that point, if there are schools on your list that you need more information about, come back here and we’ll try to find someone who can give you an “insider’s” viewpoint.</p>

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<p>It’s fine that you don’t have “any interest in brand names”, but it may work “against” you in your effort in trying to reach a list of schools <em>confidently</em> and quickly, if that’s what you want anyway. I personally think you are on track by doing the initial screening using selectivity as a main criterion. From there, you can pretty much get the “top 10” similar to the top school list by other “complicated” ranking. See the top schools are often the ones with large endowment, small class size, greater number of faculty members with advanced degrees, low admit rate, good college matriculation stats, and all that. It is not a science of course, but you’d get most of the best ones and may miss a “hidden gem” here and there.</p>

<p>That’s what I would do, coming from a background with almost zero knowledge of boarding schools and wanting to be “efficiently” get there. Look at the “top 15” or even “top 20” instead of “top 10” to minimize the chance of missing an excellent one. From that list, check out (including asking questions here) the size, location, culture, course/extracurricular activity offerings, etc. of those schools and come up with the list of schools you want to apply. Coming March 10, you may or may not land an admission letter from the school you consider the “best fit”, but from the available options hopefully you can find a “fit”. Hope this makes some sense. Good luck!</p>

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<p>MiguelLerdo, I think you should consider sending your two sons to the same boarding school. If you are not in the country, it can help the boys to each have a brother nearby. If you have family members within a reasonable distance of a school (~3 hours), you should add that factor to your deliberations.</p>

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<p>^^I agree. And I think Exeter should be on the list. Both your sons sound like they could thrive in a school like Exeter.</p>

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<p>Deerfield Academy will be an excellent choice for your boys. They have best all around programs in both humanities as well as Math/Science and they have the lowest admit rate of all boarding schools. The campus is gorgeous and you should visit the campus to see the difference compared to other large schools. It’s like a family where everyone knows your name unlike the larger schools where you are a number on their computer tracking systems. Deerfield alumni include Nobel Laureates in the Sciences.</p>

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<p>When we talk about fit - we often don’t just focus on academics - most of the schools in the top tiers will be able to get your sons what they need. But there is something to be said for “cultural environment”, school philosophy, types of students on campus, etc. that will define if your son’s have a good overall experience, or just a good academic one. </p>

<p>Many of the parents here (including me, an Exeter grad) noted that what we liked and what our children liked were often different. So be prepared that in the search for a school, students will find some that instantly click, and some that don’t.</p>

<p>And I’ll warn you - EVERYONE recommends Exeter for math and sciences, so their admissions pool is insanely high and their acceptance rates are pretty low as a result - so hedge your bets.</p>

<p>Personality, faculty and student culture is as important in terms of picking a school as stellar academics and reputation. So choose a range.</p>

<p>And to tell you the truth - while it might be “nice” to have siblings in the same school, the climate has become so academically competitive, you might not get your wish - or it may work against you. Students need to demonstrate something that will catch the attention of an admissions officer. Because now there are only a handful of slots with thousands of applications vying for them.</p>

<p>Good luck with your journey.</p>

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<p>If you’re not wedded to the East Coast for your kids, I would consider Thacher. It meets your low acceptance rate criteria (17% this past year) and has the highest yield and the lowest attrition rate of any top boarding school. These last two statistics speak strongly of the school’s ability to choose and support a student body that’s well matched to the school (and happy to be there). It is also without religious affiliation.</p>

<p>While any of the top 20 schools are going to provide your boys with an unparalleled education and peer group, not every school is going to provide the level of family-like intimacy of a smaller school like Thacher. This may or may not be important to your kids, but often a sense of family is a welcome point of stability and comfort for those who do not have a lifetime of roots in one location. My only caveat is that Thacher (located in Ojai, southern California) integrates the outdoors into the lives of the whole community. So, if your kids run more to the “indoors” type, it would not be a good fit.</p>

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<p>Boarding schools, gotta love them but yet it can be really crazy.</p>

<p>I think that these two boys sound great for boarding school, and I will admit that no matter where they go there are going to be lazy kids, but they are genius enough to get by. There are going to be goofy kids, and from what I have heard there might be the kids who get in trouble, but it is going to be a lot, lot, lot lower than regular schools or at least that is my opinion. </p>

<p>How I research a school is by first looking up test scores and college matriculation plus if it is known for being a nice school. I then talk to people who have attended, which I’m lucky in that I know A LOT of boarding school graduates and some that are still attending.</p>

<p>Here is the dirt I have on each school according to my research:</p>

<p>Groton:
Groton is a great school, but I personally know a girl who dropped out because some girls were trying to get her involved in hazing and she became bullied by that group. This girl is the nicest person I have ever met and she is usually very popular, so I felt a little off about that school.</p>

<p>Deerfield: I have heard from everyone that this is more a party school, plus if you look at some of the CC’s Board Post they show some issues with Deerfield and the partying. Plus, they seemed to be a little bit more of a sexually intimate school too.</p>

<p>Choate: Overall, I really admired Choate. I couldn’t find student videos that showed anything negative like some of the other schools, and there were tons of EC’s plus a good population of boarders. I was sort of saddened when I started talking to a bunch of graduates from all different parts of the state. None of them ever did anything important out of all the graduates or really become something great, and some ended up messed up. I decided to not even apply due to the lack of strong graduates. </p>

<p>Andover: I LOVE ANDOVER (just wanted to let you guys know)! Except, I did hear that the students are a bit more sexually intimate than other schools. Also, Andover is not as strict as Exeter, so you need kids who don’t sway to peer pressure easily. I do know that in the older days like a generation back that they use to be a bit more partying, but all the schools pretty much were. </p>

<p>Milton: I loved this school for a while, and I was positive I was going to apply, but I read that they had some trouble with a major sex offense in 2005. So, I backed away from that school, even though Milton did a great job in taking care of the issue. I just am not sure about what happened there because there are so many versions of the story.</p>

<p>Concord: The school looks great, but I know some of the graduates and they were monsters. The one kid who had graduated Concord recently left his best friend to die because of something that the one kid did (The graduate of Concord) and then tried to blame his dying friend who died before cops arrived at the scene.</p>

<p>By the way, to anyone who disagrees with what I put on the schools, I really did not mean to offend anyone. I’m just putting on what I have researched and found, and I am not at all bias about my decision.</p>

<p>Also, I really think all these schools are great, and it is the person that choose where they are going to end up no matter where they go to school.</p>

<p>Hope this helps!</p>

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<p>In my opinion, I agree it would be best to have your sons attend the same school if possible. Also, given the distance you will be living from your boys, I would highly suggest schools that are all boarding or have a high percentage of boarders. They tend to have close-knit communities and its nice when everyone is in the same boat, so to speak. As a parent of boarders, Milton and Concord Academy, though nice schools, have too high a percentage of day students.</p>

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<p>Back to OPs request for ideas on “fit” a few additional thoughts. Fit has more to do with the schools culture, philosophy, feel. Since your boys have traveled and lived abroad, I agree that a low day school pop is helpful–lots of day students tend to make the student population more regional and more provincial. If you want religious influences, I tend to think small–more community minded with focus on character (the opposite of an Exeter which is often referred to as a mini-college). And if you want them together (which will be tremendously helpful for breaks, visits and support of each other), you’ll need to consider a range of schools–think about applying to at least 5-6 schools so you have the best shot at getting them into one or more together that they both can thrive at.</p>

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<p>@ThePrepGirl: wow I really like your meta-analysis. You’ve really done your HW. Can I ask which BS do you think is at the top of your list? In terms of Choate, I can only say, what about JFK? He’s a graduate who accomplished something, if that is your yardstick. Also, Jamie Lee Curtis, Michael Douglas.</p>

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<p>@Miguel,</p>

<p>As an expat parent, my steer is to pick a school that ranks high for student oversight/nurturing. The mid-sized schools (~500 kids) might be better in that regard, rather than a big school (>1000 kids). </p>

<p>We’d all like our kids to go to a top-10 school, but do not underestimate how stiff the competition is to be admitted. Be pragmatic and cast a wider net than just a top-10 school.</p>

<p>To echo comment from several previous posters, logistically it will be a lot easier for you if both boys attend the same school. Having done the international trip to visit S. I can’t imagine having to visit kids at schools in different locations.</p>

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<p>

Which mid-sized top 10 schools rank high for student oversight/nuturing? SPS, Deerfield, Hotchkiss, or…? This is not challenge to your statement but a genuine inquiry of your perspectives.</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone. This is a great board. Keep the advice coming. I’ve compiled some of the comments so far, apologies for anything I missed. Deerfield might be just right, but the “party school” reputation has me concerned. The “mini-college” aspect of Exeter doesn’t concern me, but the lack of time to pursue individual projects does. Thacher sounds very interesting and the “outdoors” aspect is a positive. I’m interested in why being located outside of New England might be a negative. Everywhere in the U.S. is about equally convenient for me. Is there something about New England that makes a school more desirable? Does a CA location make Thacher less prestigious or result in a less-academic minded student population? </p>

<p>Deerfield Academy
Great for sports
best all around programs in both humanities as well as Math/Science
lowest admit rate
everyone knows your name
alumni include Nobel Laureates in the Sciences
Nice campus
New science center
Party school</p>

<p>Exeter
Most Socratic school
Good for conceptual math and science/problem solving
Less good for engineering projects
Very strict
Little time to pursue projects
Communication skills are essential
“EVERYONE recommends Exeter for math and sciences”
“Mini-college”</p>

<p>Thacher
In California
family-like intimacy
integrates the outdoors
low acceptance rate criteria (17% this past year)</p>

<p>St. Paul’s
stellar robotics program
100% boarding</p>

<p>Choate
tons of EC’s
good population of boarders
no complaints from students
lack of strong graduates (other than a few famous exceptions - JFK, Jamie Lee Curtis, Michael Douglas)</p>

<p>Andover
Less strict</p>

<p>Milton
High % day students</p>

<p>Concord
Some students are monsters
High % day students</p>

<p>Groton
Hazing</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>There was a very long thread about this a while back (and I’m not going to go digging for it!) . . . . I would distill it down to the following:</p>

<p>For some families, it’s simply a matter of convenience - I believe the overwhelming majority of BS families live on the east coast.</p>

<p>For others, it’s tradition . . . their parents or grandparents went to School X, so they want the same for their children. (Obviously, you’re going to find this more in New England, where the schools have been around longer.)</p>

<p>And, obviously, for others, it’s reputation.</p>

<p>You can’t argue with the fact that the New England schools tend to be bigger and offer many more academic and extracurricular opportunities than the much smaller California schools. But smaller schools, regardless of where they’re located, tend to have unique personalities that set them apart from the better known New England schools. Thacher is certainly one of these. What works for any particular kid depends on the kid. Myself, I would have been miserable in one of the big New England schools . . . and I thrived in a little tiny, nobody-ever-heard-of-it school. (And got into a good college and good grad school, etc.)</p>

<p>To the best of my knowledge, the hazing that’s reputed to happen in New England schools tends not to exist on the other side of the country. I don’t know why. It just seems to be a different culture.</p>

<p>Oh, and don’t judge Groton quite so harshly. Yes, they’ve had problems, and it’s probably cause for concern, but there’s a lot more to the school than just those incidents.</p>