Best liberal arts schools for me?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hi everyone, </p>

<p>I am a rising junior beginning the daunting journey of choosing my college list. I am pretty sure at this point that I want to attend a LAC, because of the close professor-student relationships, emphasis on undergrad teaching, small class sizes and (relatively) tight-knit community. This is and always has been the kind of environment I've thrived in academically and intellectually. </p>

<p>A little bit about my interests/desires from a college: </p>

<p>I am mostly interested in physics and math. I want to pursue these subjects thoroughly in college, undertaking as much serious research and as many advanced courses as possible. The quality of the physics and math departments (and research done there) is my first priority when selecting a college. I want a school with good grad placement as getting a phd in physics is almost certain for me. I also, however, enjoy philosophy, creative writing and classics and want a well-rounded education (hence the passion for liberal arts!).</p>

<p>I'd like an earnestly intellectual environment as opposed to a competitive, high pressure one, and prefer languorous discussions on, say, the nature of the universe to dissections of contest problems- just to give you a feel of the social atmosphere I'm going for. That is, I'd like it to be relaxed and chill and soothing but mediative and ripe with opportunities for rich collaboration and discourse. Okay, this is sounding a little pretentious, sorry about that. Basically the whole idea of the "life of the mind." With very little toxic elitism or ivory tower mentality. </p>

<p>I also want a close, relatively small community. I would want the majority of my class sizes to be small, preferably a few one-on-one or just with another person. I'd like the campus to be out of a really active urban environment. I'm a city kid but ready for a change. I also see college as a way to sort of develop and appreciate solitude, so I wouldn't be averse to a somewhat isolated environment. </p>

<p>I've been playing a variety sport since 9th grade but have no intention to continue at all, athletics have always been somewhat compulsory in my family and I'd like to get away from that for a while. Partying/drinking culture is a negative, though I know it's a bit inevitable in college. </p>

<p>From this description, what do you guys think? Thanks so much! </p>

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<p>What’s your GPA and test scores? That will help us recommend schools that are reaches & matches. Luckily, a very large amount of LACs have absolutely no greek life. While that does not completely make the partying/drinking culture disappear, at certain schools it’s not as big of an issue. However at almost any college you can avoid that scene.</p>

<p>Reed College is a small, intellectual LAC in Portland, Oregon. Sends a very large amount of science & math students to PhD programs.
<a href=“Doctoral Degree Productivity - Institutional Research - Reed College”>http://www.reed.edu/ir/phd.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Lawrence University in Wisconsin is not as hard to get into and it has been known as a feeder school for physics PhD programs. I can’t say much about its vibe or culture though.</p>

<p>Grinnell College also sounds like you, I often pair that with Reed because they have fairly similar environments. It’s in a rural town in Iowa, sort of in the middle of nowhere. They are good in the sciences well and as you can see on that link above Grinnell also sends a lot of students to PhD programs.</p>

<p>Oberlin & St. Olaf also come to mind.</p>

<p>Also, do you have any financial restraints? How much can your family afford per year?</p>

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<p>What are your test scores and grades? What is your financial situation? Are you male or female? </p>

<p>You might consider Harvey Mudd if you have the stats. The academic intensity is very high there, but it is more cooperative than competitive. Here is their mission statement:</p>

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<p>All students have a secondary concentration in a non-STEM area. You also get the benefit of the Claremont Consortium, with students from the four other Claremont Colleges to interact with (campuses are like lego blocks put together on one larger campus, the others are Pomona, Scripps, Claremont McKenna, and Pitzer). Now… relaxed and chill are not phrases one usually hears about Mudd because the workload is very heavy. But they are very strong in math & physics, and it is not a cutthroat environment.</p>

<p>Other schools to consider: Reed, Lawrence, Mount Holyoke.</p>

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<p>Financial aid isn’t an issue right now. I’m not thinking about price at this point, though I may eventually winnow down my list based on this. For right now it’s all about fit. </p>

<p>@intparent‌ @Ctesiphon‌ As for my stats, they’re not quite impressive since I’m a junior but I’m doing a lot this year. </p>

<p>I have a 4.0 UW and am currently first in my class. I got a 230 on my PSAT last year. I anticipate getting around a 2400 on my actual SATs. I am planning to take several dual enrollment courses this year, including honors multivariable calc and linear algebra (proof based, intensive-currently taking), upper-level classical mechanics (lagrangians, hamiltonians, all that jazz), and possibly special relativity or introductory analysis (for spring and summer). My linear algebra class for next semester will probably only have around 10 students and the prof is actually relatively well-known (he has a wikipedia page anyway, if that’s an appropriate gauge), so I expect a good letter of rec. I took the calc AP and language AP and got fives last year. This year I’m planning to do Physics C (both), English Lit, Euro, Stats, French and Psychology. </p>

<p>My EC’s aren’t that great, at this point I’ve got Mock Trial (senior attorney), philosophy club (founder, president), JSA (founder, president), GSA (president), and Varsity soccer. However, I am starting research with a professor this week and will apply to various research summer programs at the end of the year. I have been chosen by my school to participate in the county science fair this year for an independent project, we’ll see what happens. I am also preparing to submit several original philosophy pieces for publication at various journals. I have a few minor awards for creative writing, planning to do scholastic and norman mailer this year. </p>

<p>Thank for the suggestions thus far! Keep 'em coming. </p>

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<p>You can’t ignore this. It is the main reason many students can’t attend their first choice schools. It needs to be near the top of your criteria list, not something you will worry about later. Do you know if you will be eligible for need-based aid? Or have your parents saved enough to pay for a $60,000+/year school? Are your parents married (divorced parents complicate the financial aid picture)? Also, what is your home state?</p>

<p>One thing you need to know about is the Net Price Calculators that each college has a link to on their financial aid webpage. Get your parents to help you run them to see what your likely cost would be for the schools you are interested in. However, if your parents are divorced, have a small business, or own rental real estate, the results may not be very accurate (will show more aid than you are really eligible for).</p>

<p>And "around a 2400 on my actual SAT’ is a perfect SAT score, as I assume you know. I would say you will be a very strong candidate with a 4.0 UW and great test scores, and you do have solid ECs. The good news is that if you do have financial constraints, you will be eligible for some very good scholarships. You also certainly could have a shot (although a small one, as admission rates are so low) at HYPS. I’d suggest Stanford as a reach for you given your interests and preferences, but I am sure others will have additional suggestions.</p>

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<p>@intparent‌ Ha yes I am aware, I guess I’m being a little optimistic. But I’ve gotten a 2400 on practice tests before and usually only miss one or two questions on the ones where I can’t quite clinch a perfect. I’m sure it’ll fall in the 2300-2400 range, and probably 2400 with more than one attempt.</p>

<p>I will check out the net price calculator for sure, thank you. But again, for now I’d mostly like the focus on fit and treat finances as a secondary issue. I’d like to have an idea of what schools to look into first. Also financial aid is probably not gonna be a reality for me, my parents fall in the ~200,000 bracket. </p>

<p>I will probably apply to one or two of HYPS just to see if I can get in, but I’ve become a bit disenchanted with the ivies recently and would prefer a smaller and less competitive community. Hence the interest in liberal arts schools. </p>

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<p>I think Lawrence is probably lowballing this student, even if he/she wants a less competitive environment (it was my D2’s safety, she had 2390 SATs, but only a 3.7 GPA – but the vibe wasn’t really very intellectual). Oberlin is a good suggestion. You might consider Williams and Carleton, too.</p>

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<p>@intparent‌ Since we have some similarities in stats and interests, may I ask what school you daughter eventually chose? </p>

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<p>She applied to and was accepted at all of the following: U of Chicago, Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Carleton, Kenyon, Macalester, Mount Holyoke, and Lawrence. She is a sophomore at Harvey Mudd and loves it.</p>

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<p>Wow, congrats :slight_smile: I’ve heard great things about Harvey Mudd, the fact that undergrads can do significant research in string theory is definitely a big draw. The only downside for me is that it’s got a largely exclusive math and science focus. </p>

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<p>undergrads doing research in string theory?! at a liberal arts college? what’s this country coming to? :-B </p>

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<p>My D2 was able to research on campus at Mudd after freshman year, and so were all of the other freshman she knew who wanted research positions. Yes, the math/science focus is intense, but look at the curriculum for a math or physics major at any college, and you will find that you are going to spend the majority of your coursework in those courses anyway. We ran as spreadsheet on the number of STEM vs. non-STEM classes she would take at Chicago, Swat, and Mudd if she majors in Physics. Here is what our calculations showed if she took only the required courses in STEM for her major and for graduation at each school: </p>

<p>Non-STEM Courses at Mudd: 55%
Non-STEM Courses at Swat: 42%
Non-STEM Courses at U Chicago: 40%</p>

<p>This seems a little crazy, but one reason for it is that quite a few of the math & physics courses that are part of the Core at Mudd (everyone takes them) are also required for the Physics major. So the actual major requirements on top of what everyone has to take anyway to graduate is smaller than at the other colleges. That doesn’t mean that all students WILL take that many non-STEM classes. But they CAN. Also, I think Mudd students may take a heavier load than at the other two schools. They stuff a lot intoa short time. For example, Multivariable Calc at Mudd is only half a semester and 1.5 credits.</p>

<p>Also, students can take some of those courses at the other Claremont colleges. My kid is taking a history class at Scripps this semester, for example.</p>

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<p>Carleton, Reed, Swarthmore, and even Wesleyan come to mind. All fit the criteria yet are very different schools vibe wise. </p>

<p>When you come up with your list, remember that nothing short of visits to the schools you are interested will help you determine actual fits. You seem like you will have very competitive stats, so be thorough in your research and try to tour as many schools as possible (with students on campus so you can also sit in on classes). And, of course, listen to the excellent advice on this forum regarding financial considerations if in fact you do need FA as that is a layer not to be avoided when putting together the initial list :)</p>

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<p>^And Harvey Mudd, Wellesley, Mt Holyoke. My I could go on and on…</p>

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<p>Hmm interesting @intparent‌ , thanks for the info. The connection to the Claremont colleges is definitely a draw. </p>

<p>So far my list is looking something like this: </p>

<p>Reed
Harvey Mudd
Swarthmore
Williams
Grinnell
Carleton
(And probably a few non-LAC’s, just for the h*** of it- Uchicago, Princeton, Yale etc) </p>

<p>Anyone have any thoughts about grad placement at these institutions? </p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

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<p>Consider WashU St Louis for non LAC as well</p>

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<p>Every school on your list has very good PhD placement. But I strongly advice you to visit most of them. Every one of them has their own vibe, and not all of them will appeal to all students. Do you have a copy of the Fiske Guide to Colleges? You might want to start by carefully reading the descriptions for each one, I think they are pretty revealing.</p>

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<p>@‌Ir4550 I know they’re an excellent school, and I’ve heard great things particularly about the medical program but is their physics program good? I’d be curious to hear specifics. Thanks! </p>

<p>@intparent‌ Visiting Swarthmore and Williams is definitely doable. Possibly Carleton and Grinnell. The others are probably a bit too far away, but I’ll definitely check out the Fiske guide. Thanks!</p>

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<p>I would not choose to attend Reed or Mudd without actually visiting. Just don’t apply ED without setting foot on campus. One thing some students do is say they will visit after acceptances. But the window is short…usually about 5 weeks from receiving the decision until you need to make your final choice. And you are in high school classes, plane tickets are expensive on short notice, parents may be too busy to go with you, ECs are in peak season, etc. Lots of students who SAY they will visit if they get in just run out of runway/time and drop schools that might be a great fit for them.</p>

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<p>Lafayette has an interesting physics department</p>