<p>NMR....I'm not an adcom but I do think if there is no dance audition, they do look at the resume to get a general idea of the applicant's background and training. When I work with kids, I gather a great deal of information and so I am used to looking over "credentials/profiles" so to speak. While you are right that I can't evaluate the level of dance between Miss Patty's Ballet and Tap Emporium and some other dance training place, one thing I can observe is that some kid has taken dance for ten years in ballet, jazz, modern, and tap for ten hours per week at a dance studio and another kid took one dance class at regular school in 12th grade. I see a major difference in their dance training background. I can't evaluate their skills as a dancer per se, but it does tell me something. So, you are right that they can't evaluate your dance skills if it is not on the audition day but they collect a lot of paperwork from an applicant, for a reason. It also tells a story about background.</p>
<p>Picking up on something MTgrlsmom wrote....she talked about her daughter who has a great deal of dance training and is also very skilled at voice but hasn't had as much acting training as those two other skill areas (I could have said the same about my D prior to college as well). Like MTgrlsmom's D, my daughter wanted a program where she'd still be challenged in dance, and conitinue developing her voice, but she really wanted to also improve the area she had the least training in...acting. Even now, after five semesters in CAP, she has opted to focus more on acting (though is still in voice and dance) in ETW. But what I see of SOME kids, they will say...."I'm strongest at voice, and so I want a program that emphasizes voice." But if one wants to go into MT, it is a good idea to consider a program where you will strengthen your weaker areas and not just rely on your strengths. I've heard kids say they are not a good dancer and so they want a program that doesn't emphasize dance but in fact, they may need to enhance their dance background (like NMR's D is getting to do more dance in college at CAP than she had at her PA HS where she focused more on acting and definitely has more acting training than my D had before college). And so my personal view is to not just look for a program that plays to your strengths but one where you can also develop the areas where you have had less training or skill development. I prefer a well balanced BFA in MT program, though not all would want that. But I do think it is wise to not just look for what you are already good at but look to strengthen the skill sets you have had less background in.</p>
<p>I think it's difficult to assess how dance is valued/considered/desired/evaluated at a particular program based upon whether or not it is included as part of the audition. Look at it this way - all schools have requirements for monologues and songs which are essentially the same; not so for dance - some have no dance component and those that do require auditionees to dance, there are great variations in the level of difficulty in the dance portion of the audition. As others have said, it is much more important to examine the curriculum and the different levels (and types) of dance available to students each year in the respective programs.</p>
<p>MichalenKat and alwaysamom I agree with you and soozievt that the program is where the evaluation should occur as to how the three disciplines are valued. There is not always consistency within a school- look at PSU. On campus there is a ballet/jazz audition as there is in NYC but not in Chicago or Vegas or LA!!! Yet dance is a strong third of the component of the actual program, along with voice and acting. And soozievt you make a great point about seeking programs that will flush out and strengthen one's weaknesses as well as their strengths.</p>
<p>Finding a program that will focus on a student's weaknesses and not just their strengths is very, very important. So many of our kids come out of high school experiences where they have been "type cast" or where they have simply been labeled as the "go to" person for certain types of roles. My daughter was always cast in high school in the legit high soprano ingenue type of roles. Now finally, in college, she is working a lot on her middle and lower ranges, on belting, on roles where she is not the ingenue. She will be in a show this semester where a friend of hers has the soprano ingenue role while my daughter has a role that will require her to belt and stick to lower and middle ranges playing a character who is not a teen age ingenue. It was funny, at first my reaction was "wait a minute, why wasn't she cast as the high soprano?" That lasted about 10 seconds until my daughter told me how glad she was that for the first time after 4 years of high school and community theater, she was being cast in a role so different from what she was accustomed to and what a great learning experience it would be. She's right; picking a program that will take our kids out of their comfort zones, identify and force them to work their weak areas, and diversify their experiences is so very important.</p>
<p>MichaelNKat - good for your daughter! Like yours, my daughter has always been typed in those soprano ingenue roles as well and is DYING to play a belty and/or feisty type!! She got the role of Larkin in her HS production of Once Upon a Mattress, but REALLY wanted Winifred...said she had more personality.
Maybe one day.....:)</p>
<p>A wonderful drama teacher of my D's once observed that the female character actors seem always to long to be ingenues, but that the ingenues, especially after awhile, long to sink their metaphorical teeth into character roles. </p>
<p>The grass is always greener ...</p>
<p>Of course, in the real world. actors will probably often/mostly be cast according to their type. That's probably unavoidable. But in college, one would hope that students of both types would be given the opportunity to explore different aspects of their own characters/type as learning experiences.</p>
<p>What's important too, I think, is to learn how to be versatile and confident in playing a diverse variety of roles. It can't help but to increase employability. While I agree that in the real world there is a tendency to get cast to "type", the more an actor can go beyond their "type", the more I would think the actor has opportunities to work. </p>
<p>One of the things my daughter likes so much about her school is that she is required to go beyond her normal boundaries. Her voice teacher last year could have focused on continuing to develop my daughter's legit soprano voice since that is a real strength she has. A deliberate decision was made, however, to focus a lot of time on developing her belt and mid to low ranges. Her freshman acting studio teacher last year pushed her to move out of her "ingenue" comfort zone and cast her in a show this semester as a character who is a feisty strong radical socialist whose vocal pieces are mostly mid-range and often belty. All of this can only better equip my daughter to seek a variety of role types, which I think should be one of the goals of a well rounded performance education. It is important for a school not to "pigeon hole" a student but encourage and push a student to develop new areas of strength and competence, whether it be vocal range and style, character type, dance technique. And I think it is important for students and parents looking at schools to make sure a program will provide these opportunities and not simply look for programs that match a student's current areas of strength.</p>
<p>Is it just me, or does dancing seem to be the least important skill for applicants to MT programs? I'm not talking about the training once you enroll, but in terms of getting accepted to a strong MT school, isn't a candidate better off being stronger in voice and/or acting than dance?</p>
<p>That depends on the program and how completely they plan on preparing you for a life in the theatre. All skills are important to a serious musical theatre performer who is prepared to essay many and varied roles in MT. It is true that some programs put a high value on voice in their audition process. But in terms of being "better" - it is better to be well prepared, or least as best prepared as you can be in every area.</p>
<p>I agree with mtdog71 that it is important to be as well prepared as you can be in all 3 areas. Regardless of whether a school emphasizes dance or not for purposes of auditions, if there is a dance component you want to be as best prepared as possible. You never know what factor can tip the scale in deciding between 2 candidates. Moreover, having a strong dance back round can enable you to place out of freshman level dance classes at many schools which can only enhance your opportunities to get the most advanced level of dance training possible in your 4 years. And the better you can dance, the broader the scope of working auditions for which you are prepared.</p>
<p>I understand that a student should be prepared in all three ares of MT. I understand that those who are strong in ALL ares will be better candidates. My question is if you are looking for admission at these extremely competitive audition schools, are your chances greater if dancing is the weakest area for you. From what I've read on these boards, it certainly seems so.</p>
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My question is if you are looking for admission at these extremely competitive audition schools, are your chances greater if dancing is the weakest area for you.
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<p>This is highly dependent upon the school. Obviously, if the school doesn't include a dance audition, that is most likely true. But at some schools, the dance call can absolutely rule you out, no matter how strong you are in the other areas. </p>
<p>Then it becomes a question of doing your research on the schools which interest you, and compiling a reasonable list of schools.</p>
<p>I think it really depends on the school and that broad generalizations would be misleading. For example, Ithaca has no dance audition. At Emerson the dance audition is very low level and the school admits it's dance program is very basic - so I would bet they don't weigh the dance audition as heavily as other areas. At Syracuse, the dance audition is challenging for an experienced dancer and we were told that to be unconditionally recommended for admission to the MT program a student had to score either a 1 or 2 out of 5 in all 3 areas including dance. At CMU when my daughter auditioned, it seemed that acting was given the greatest weight and at UArts my impression was voice, acting and dance in that order. Your best bet is to ask departments reps at the schools on your list how auditions are scored and the relative weight given to each component. It's a fair and legitimate question to ask.</p>
<p>Any recommendations for "second tier" MT schools? My S is applying to U of M, Ithaca, Syracuse, OCU, OU, U of Arizona, which are all highly selective. He has great grades, good scores. Any suggestions on less selective schools?</p>
<p>"Second tier" is kind of misleading since at any audition based program you are looking at acceptances in the 3 - 9% range or so and there are many schools at the upper end of that range that provide excellent training and are still very selective. Perhaps what you ought to focus on are some schools where the academic aspect of admission is not as demanding and/or not weighted as heavily as the schools you listed, where the audition pool is smaller and perhaps more regional. There is a thread showing total auditioners/acceptances/class size for many schools (can't remember the name of it) which might be helpful in identifying some schools to look at. Also there is a thread asking about MT programs where academics are relaxed.</p>
<p>Fair, if you look toward the top of these "thread" listings, you will find one marked Important: FAQ. Click on that and look for the link to the"Big List". It is a list of most MT programs in this country. Each program is noted whether it is audition, non-audition and if it is "highly" selective. That might be a good place to start researching schools for your S's second choices as well as possible safeties.</p>
<p>Nobody has answered any questions, guided or helped Elsinore291. And frankly I'm sure he or she is probably "Cap'd" out by now. Does anyone know where this person resides? Can he/she afford 25K/35K, 35/45K, 45K/55K? Does He/She want a BFA? Is he/she asking about the dance program because he/she has 2 left feet or is a world class dancer? I think that would be a better starting point. Then everyone can weigh in with their personal experiences.</p>
<p>All of you have made excellent points, especially the need to explore each school's curriculum thoroughly. Finding MT schools is a long exploration process. Followed at some point by on-site visits and then hopefully acceptance. </p>
<p>Elsinore291, I noticed you have not replied or posted once since your original question. Hopefully you found the answers you are looking for, if not, I'm sure we would all like to hear how you are making out.</p>
<p>beenthereMTdad....</p>
<p>As discussion threads go, one thing leads to another. You wrote in post #6 that some schools do not require a dance audition which may imply that the lack of a dance audition may mean that dance is not an important facet of the MT program. A discussion ensued and one post replied to another and then another on that issue. This is common in a discussion. I know when I posted on this thread, I wasn't replying or helping the OP directly and was simply replying to posts in the discussion. I don't feel an obligation to help every member who starts a thread with an inquiry. Sometimes I join a discussion to reply to a particular post and those posts veer off into a related topic. In this case, speaking for just myself, I only participated in that response to ongoing discussion here and was not replying at all to the OP. We also have many people who start thread who never return but other learn from or engage in the discussion that ensues anyhow. There has been some fruitful discussion on this thread and many are reading and not just the OP who asked the original question. So, others may be gleaning helpful information or the exchange of ideas. </p>
<p>The OP's question was very very broad. I see several schools suggested on this thread and the OP needs to do her homework and look into MT schools (and just read this forum and glean a lot too) and then ask specific questions. As far as being "Cap'd out"....I think a discussion of CAP came up in the context of the "no audition but heavy dance program anyway" context. It happens to be one of many fine MT programs that is dance heavy. </p>
<p>As far as cost, the OP did not give that as a parameter and so why assume it mattered to her? Her stated college criteria are: "best" (which is not something I care to get into), small, and good dance. The OP has not provided enough information and is not asking the kinds of specific questions that will help others to guide her. It is not the people responding who are not asking the right questions. </p>
<p>As far as cost, many of these programs are costly, including BOCO which doesn't necessarily have substantial FA either. I know several people, including my own kid, and other posters on this thread, whose kids turned down BOCO to go to NYU even though NYU is costly. Many got great aid and/or scholarships. </p>
<p>It would be great is Elsinore returns and can be more specific as then those who respond can be of more help. Meanwhile, the discussion involves some helpful information for all who read the thread, beyond Elsinore. There are many willing to help. Questions that are less broad, are best.</p>
<p>I believe about 25% of the posts so far on this thread mention CAP but it was part of a side issue related to evaluating the dance component of a program based on the audition experience/requirements and it is a valid point that applies to many schools. As I mentioned, in my D's year, BOCO had no dance audition and yet, dance is strong at BOCO and it is pretty much a triple threat program. I also think that the example about CAP having dance placement and many levels for each year of the program is something to also look at within each school's program because some group all dancers together, no matter their background and some don't and so these examples give the OP and others something to consider when comparing programs. They are merely examples. They are not meant to be about "best."</p>
<p>beenthereMTdad, you can also PM Elsinore291 and check in directly ;). </p>
<p>When I "first" came upon this forum, I actually literally spent, what seemed forever, reading through all the information. Working full time, I only had so many hours in the day, and so it took me quite some time. May be that is simply what Elsinore is doing at this point.</p>