<p>Usually, that is the half the studied nowhere notable. It’s comforting, actually.</p>
<p>or nowhere at all.</p>
<p>It’s definitely comforting for me too. </p>
<p>Look at ADam Pascal never went to College. Idina Menzel only a few years at NYU. I do think some of the kids get hooked on the big name schools mine included.</p>
<p>I really think getting professional work is about talent, work ethic, and personality. It is not really about the name of the school you attended except for (maybe) the connections you could make. Many, many of these schools offer great training that will make our kids marketable if the take advantage of it and work hard. We honestly could care less about the big name schools and are targeting places D would want to start her career so she can make those connections in the theater community while in college. There are lots of ways to get to a life in MT. Big name schools with big ticket prices is but one route. And not ours…</p>
<p>It’s true that many actors find some success without a college degree in theatre but that doesn’t mean that they haven’t had training or that the talent simply appeared and allowed for a career. 
There’s a good amount of luck involved also, and Adam and Idina are two good examples of that. They both can, and do, thank Jonathan Larson for their careers. </p>
<p>While I appreciate all of the work that went into this list, my problem with these kinds of analyses is that they are just not accurate. There are too many actors who do not list their schools, and it is not necessarily true that they are the ones who went “nowhere notable”. I know of way more Penn State alumni, some of them very recent grads, who have appeared on Broadway than what is listed here, including some very recent grads who are currently appearing on Broadway. We know many actors who choose not to list their college for whatever reason and it really skews the results. These kinds of statistics are always fun to review, but I would hope everyone takes them with a grain of salt!</p>
<p>Wow, lots of action since I last checked in.</p>
<p>VoiceTeacher: You should read the post before commenting. I made a big deal about class size, mentioned it several times, and dedicated half of the lists to it, and also stated my opinion that the lists that are normalized to class size are more valuable. </p>
<p>vvnstar: Thanks for posting the link. Overall, there is very good agreement with the referenced Top10 and the Broadway data. However, this appears to me to be an individual’s subjective list, which of course everyone is entitled to. While he provides a high-level metric to weigh specific categories, there is no information on how the actual scores are generated for each category (specifically how does he rank faculty, reputation, etc).</p>
<p>prodesse et. al.: Playbill itself provided less than 50% of my school data, so there are indeed a lot of actors that leave their school out of their bio. The work-intensive part of my process was doing a pretty thorough web-search on every actor that appeared in each show, plus alumni threads of all of the schools, etc.</p>
<p>takeitallin: You contend that these kinds of analyses "are just not accurate”. I think this analysis is rather unique, and my guess is that it’s pretty accurate – to the point of missing a relatively small number of actors most schools. Of course 2 or 3 actors is a huge margin of error for a school where I found a small number (or no) actors to begin with, which has been pointed out many times, but should be accurate enough for schools with ~10 or more tallies.</p>
<p>Actually, if you’re game, let’s put your assertion to the test. I would sincerely like to get an indication of accuracy. If you “know of way more” Penn St alums that should have been listed, then this is truly important for everyone to know, as it would significantly reduce the usefulness of the list.</p>
<p>Here is the listing of PSU actors that I found. The year is their “Class”, which I mentioned may not be very accurate, “-” in front of show means ensemble, “-” in front of school means they did not graduate.</p>
<p>Adam Jepsen, M, 2012, PSU, -Cinderella<br>
Carly Hughes, F, 2005, PSU, -Ghost, -Book of Mormon
Marcus Paul James, M, 2000, PSU, -In the Heights<br>
Caroline Bowman, F, 2010, PSU, -Kinky Boots, -Wicked
Laurie Veldheer F, 2009, PSU, -Newsies<br>
Stephanie Martignetti, F, 2007, PSU, -Nice Work If<br>
Aaron Galligan-Stierle, M, 2005, PSU, Phantom<br>
Matthew Hydzik, M, 2005, PSU, West Side Story<br>
Katrina Yaukey, F, 1999, --PSU, -War Horse, -Billy Elliot</p>
<p>Please reply only with actors that I missed who appeared in a Broadway musical staged within the study time-frame (~2011-3/2013 - see initial post for details), because if we expand the time-frame everyone might start chiming in with recent successes and it would be chaos. This list was limited to a 2-year snapshot, but with a substantial depth-of-field (i.e. I researched pretty much everything I could besides calling or emailing the actors); tallying newer/older actors to the same level of scrutiny would require the same level of effort, which I do not plan on doing. Anyone else that might know of a Penn St alum that I missed during this time frame can chime in as well, likewise if you’re familiar with the Penn St program and think this list looks complete to your knowledge – this feedback could serve as a good benchmark for the overall list.</p>
<p>I think this is an interesting thread and I love your research—but the problem I have with it is not your work but the fact that it implicitly conflates “working on B’way in any capacity” - including ensemble once or twice - with “being a successful working actor.” Now, I’m <em>not</em> saying you’re saying that. But what I’m saying is that these sorts of lists inevitably imply the two are related, when in fact they are only marginally related (if at all).</p>
<p>There are so many people who are what’s called ‘two and done’–they are ensemble on B’way, and a minor role in a tour, and then you hear nothing of them again. This happens quite a bit. </p>
<p>If you rank the college based simply on “are they working on B’way” these people are successful by your metric, or at least important. Yet, they may stop being a working actor at 25. Whereas, another person who is a successful long term career professional actor regionally, would disappear from this list. If they do perform on B’way later in their career - after building it over a long period of time -they would not list their school (I mean if you’re 40, you’re most likely going to list your performances in Playbill, not the school you graduated from.) </p>
<p>It also ignores roles. This list counts ensemble as important as a supporting role. Not knocking ensemble–it would be thrilling to be ensemble on B’way. The problem with this is that some colleges may well be aware of such rankings as this and then tilt their acceptances to maximize their chances of landing the most grads on B’way in any capacity. It is not that hard to do this in fact. You admit students who are <em>most</em> likely to be cast in ensemble–they can sing and dance, they are a certain height and weight and look. They don’t have to act particularly well. If you admit and train enough of these students, your chances of landing alum on B’way in any capacity will increase. This runs the risk of churning out a uniform student body which has a high chance of being in ensemble, but not much else. Ensemble is a very youth-oriented part. Plus you have to look only a narrow range of type. So you exclude a lot of people of high talent <em>and</em> the people included age out/burn out very quickly.</p>
<p>I am not disagreeing with you; I’m more offering this perspective as a way of adding to the data. Personally,for my own kids, success would be “being able to live off their artistic work over the long term.” So this sort of list doesn’t match with my own kids’ definition of success. </p>
<p>Now, if anyone had extra time on their hands. what I’d find most valuable would be to find out what schools produce the highest percentage of working actors or artistic professionals (in addition to acting: improv comedians, cabaret singers, songwriters, playwrights, etc.) who are living off their work steadily, 10 years later.</p>
<p>“Now, if anyone had extra time on their hands. what I’d find most valuable would be to find out what schools produce the highest percentage of working actors or artistic professionals (in addition to acting: improv comedians, cabaret singers, songwriters, playwrights, etc.) who are living off their work steadily, 10 years later.”</p>
<p>I agree @connections, something like that would be an interesting study, especially combined with the data collection methodology that @MTpragmatist used. We need to find a theatre PhD student in need of a thesis to do this research! </p>
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<p>I agree very much with what connections wrote above!!! </p>
<p>Being in ensemble on Broadway certainly is wonderful. That pertains often to a certain type of talent. Also, one could land ensemble in one Broadway show and that is all they ever do on stage for years. My own definition of success in this field (and one my BFA graduate daughter would agree with) is very different than what is being used on this thread. Being a consistently working performing arts professional (not just one show) and making a living from this work…equals success. </p>
<p>My own kid is just 5 years out of her degree program. So far, she has made her living 100% in the fields of theater and music since graduation day, consistently working, and at a pretty high level, though has not yet been on Broadway. Based on this thread, she would not be one of the success stories, but even though I am her mom (!!), I think she has been quite successful in this field to date. Broadway certainly would be cool if it ever happens for her, but her goal is not Broadway. Her goal is to be a working actor, singer, and songwriter. And she is. She has been on the Off Broadway stage (recently nominated for an award for her role), and in major regional theaters (currently in one and just cast in another coming up). She has performed as a singer/songwriter in many significant venues. She has some major commissions as a musical theater writer/composer/lyricist and has won well-known fellowships and awards on a national scale for this work. She has yet to ever be out of work. She has held survival jobs but those were all in the field of theater and music such as teaching in BFA programs, youth theater programs, accompanist, musical director, etc. and this past year, she has not had time for any survival jobs, in fact. I mention all this as an example of a fairly recent grad, five years out, who has not been on Broadway, but has worked continually in theater and music at a pretty high level overall. I would like to think that if a college program listed their successful grads, she would be included, and not just the grads who have appeared on Broadway. </p>
<p>Basically, I share the perspective so well articulated by Connections in her post above, and give just one example of that perspective from personal experience. </p>
<p>When people say to me “We are going to see S on Broadway one day” I always reply “Maybe but my wish for him is that he finds steady work no matter where he is”. They always look at me funny. This site has brought both of us a lot of clarity about what’s realistic and to him what is really important to him. </p>
<p>@MTMajorCook I think that it is you who are the true pragmatist here. Like your S, our D would like to be a working actor in any show anywhere. She is realistic enough to know that a career, and a life, evolves over a period of time in ways that you can never predict.</p>
<p>I have to say that we are definitely guilty of scouring the bios in Play Bills for the names of schools. It’s an interesting exercise, but does it mean anything in the end? Probably not. There are really only two types of people who care about which schools are listed in the bios - the performers, who are proud of their alma maters, and the parents of prospective MT students, who are trying to make sense out of this crazy random process.</p>
<p>Keep in mind also that most working actors, including the most famous and successful ones, continue to receive training in voice, acting, and dance throughout their careers. Who is to say which is more responsible for long term success - the college education or the continuing education?</p>
<p>This brings us again to the dark place that this thread went a month ago…does it really matter - long term - which school a kid attends? I argued then - and still believe - that a kid will find work based on his talent, work ethic, reputation, type fit for various roles, and <em>gasp</em> how much LUCK he or she finds along the way. The source of the BFA is secondary.</p>
<p>Pursuant to this topic, I’d urge everybody to watch a documentary (available on Netflix) called “That Guy… Who Was In That Thing.” It’s a fascinating glimpse into the lives of successful working actors in Hollywood. I think it was Fishbowlfreshman who steered me to it – speaking of whom, does anyone know what happened to Fishbowlfreshman? We don’t seem to have heard from her in a while. I hope this means she is too busy working as an actor to be contributing on CC.</p>
<p>I second @prodesse’s recommendation – lot of familiar faces from TV, film, and stage, some of whose names I even knew before seeing the movie! It’s also on Showtime On Demand and is airing on Showtime in May.</p>
<p>If you are looking for specific actresses and their colleges, maybe your idol, then if you search it on google. I know Idina Menzel went to Tisch and Sutton Foster attended CMU if that’s what you were going for</p>
<p>A caveat with that though…correct me if I am wrong, but neither of them GRADUATED from those programs- right? I am pretty certain with Sutton (they even talked about it on the CMU tour- it bugs them) less certain with Idina.</p>
<p>Sutton Foster only attended CMU for one year. She has received an Honorary Doctorate from Ball State and she has been on the MT faculty at NYU/Tisch/NSB.</p>
<p>I think Idina Menzel may have graduated and earned her BFA at NYU/Tisch.</p>
<p>No Idina only went to NYU for 2 years.</p>