<p>What are the best physics colleges for a student that has a 3.5 UW GPA (4.2+ W) from a middle class family? He expects to go for a Ph.D in Theoretical or Astrophysics, so research is a must. Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>There are very few fields in science that are more complex and difficult than research level theoretical physics and astrophysics. The number of available research and teaching positions is small, and the competition for them (despite the level of difficulty) is intense. So college programs that may lead to success in these fields must be at the highest academic level, taught by the very best physicists and mathematicians, and students must be surrounded by very bright peers with like interests and passion.</p>
<p>The colleges and universities where success is a possibility are the Caltechs, MITs, Princetons, etc. Often they are also the large State flagships – such as UC Berkeley, University of Illinois Urbana, etc. So if the top privates are out of reach for you, then look to your state flagship.</p>
<p>With all due respect this plan is probably unwise unless the student is very gifted at math. The tenure path is quite challenging and most will be math stars.</p>
<p>Check publication “Rugg’s Recommendations on the Colleges” by Frederick Rugg. It comes out annually. Many public libraries shelve book in reference section. .He ranks many schools by major, identifying schools with competent programs for each noted major, ranking schools by “most selective”, “very selective”, and “selective”. It’s a good start. I’m sure there’s a good program in the “very selective” category, probably a school with an engineering emphasis, which fits him. If his test scores a strong, perhaps he’s got a shot at the “most selective” list too.</p>
<p>My DH probably looked like your DS in high school in terms of GPA (aced tests, didn’t do HW and didn’t give 100% to projects, etc). He had pretty high SATs, but grades in the 3.5 UW range. He only applied to Stanford, MIT and Harvey Mudd (not so smart) – he ended up getting lucky and got into Harvey Mudd College. He’s pretty sure part of why he got in was being from a midwest state with little representation at HMC. It was an amazing undergrad experience for him…he didn’t know he wanted to pursue grad school until later, so his Sophomore and Junior grades weren’t amazing, but he came on strong in Sr. Year, aced his Physics GRE and got into a PhD in Physics program at Urbana. He only spent a year there and then finished up his PhD at Caltech. I share his story just to illustrate that a smart kid with a less than perfect GPA can get into a good school like Harvey Mudd. </p>
<p>I caution you though that an average kid probably shouldn’t pursue physics with an end goal of a PhD. It’s an extremely tough and competitive field and your son needs to be up to par on the math and science side of things to have a shot at a PhD. Physics is the toughest science discipline (I say this as someone who took graduate level chem and bio classes). If your son ultimately wants to be a professor, he needs to get his PhD from one of the top programs in order to have a shot at a tenure track position. </p>
<p>It’s a long (my DH finished his PhD at Caltech in 4 years (super fast by Caltech standards)), tough journey to the PhD. My DH loved the experience, but got drawn away into the business world. Top consulting firms and investment banks covet Physics (and other disciplines like Math and Chem) PhDs because they know these folks tend to be super smart and can pick up finance, etc. easily.</p>
<p>I agree with others that its a long path, with very low odds of an eventual tenure track position. But I would say that regardless of whether your kid is described as average or brilliant. </p>
<p>Just take the judgment on CC with a grain of salt: I know you say ‘average’ but on what basis? A highschool GPA alone tells us extremely little about your kid and their academic potential…for so many reasons (could be a late bloomer, or at a very challenging school with no grade inflation, or highly gifted with LD, or a lopsided kid with brilliance in math…).</p>
<p>I’ve only known one physicist and one astrophysicist and they both had lower high school grades than the OP’s student. Perhaps offering college suggestions for this student might be a better use of everyone’s time than debating whether the OP’s student will be a college prof in 8 or 9 years. As oldcm says there are alternative paths and this student is on step 1.</p>
<p>The OP specified that it is an average student, not a super-genius with not so great grades.</p>
<p>Best physics college in such a case? - clearly engineering school.</p>
<p>Physics is a common enough major that you can look anywhere. I’d suggest finding schools that your son likes, and then have him visit or email the department. Find out how many undergrad students are in the department, if they are welcomed into research groups. Ask how many go on to grad school. Look at the department websites to get more of a feel for how these departments feel about undergrads and research.</p>
<p>You do not have to go to the tippy-top science schools to have a chance to do undergrad research in the hard sciences. Just to give a few examples, I’ve seen professors at Ohio State University, the University of Georgia, Cal State San Francisco and USC describe the contributions of undergrads to their physics research programs. Mostly, these were students who were interested in something a professor mentioned during a lecture. The students asked the professors if they could be involved, and voila, they got a shot at working on the project. </p>
<p>oldcmcalum has it exactly right. There are many career paths for someone with a PhD in Physics or a related science. The majority of Physics PhD’s will certainly be following some of those paths, because there aren’t enough faculty jobs for them. 
It doesn’t stop people from going to grad school.</p>
<p>I thought your S was intent on FSU? If he’s only a junior now, I’d really give this situation another 5 months to develop.</p>
<p>Does Gourmans still put out a guide? It also ranked schools by major.</p>
<p>I have a degree in physics and worked for many years at an aerospace company with many others who also had degrees in physics. There were those who were the CalTech/MIT types, to those who got degrees from their state university - I worked with a guy who got his PhD from University of Wyoming, who happened to be an awesomely smart guy. Grain of salt with all those tippy top science colleges - there are those who graduate from there and no one wants to work with them. The expression at work was “No one wants to work with a genius a**hole.” Good luck.</p>
<p>If you want to be competitive for physics PhD admission you are correct that you need to get good research experience as an undergrad. PhD programs want to know that you actually can do research and it is also important to get good letters of recommendation from profs that are well respected in the field. So if your son is not a viable candidate for the very top physics schools, then fogcity’s advice about flagship state universities is spot on. I would add Ohio State, U of Maryland, UCLA, UCSB, U of Michigan, U of Washington, Penn State, U of Colorado, U of Texas, SUNY Stony Brook, Michigan State, U of Wisconsin, Indiana U. They all have good physics programs and should provide the opportunities to become a viable doctoral student candidate.</p>
<p>Both UF and FSU have large and excellent physics departments, with lots of research opportunities for undergraduates. </p>
<p>Top students at state flagships often are just as good as those at HPMSC, but students at state schools also have a wider range in terms of preparedness and ability, which will allow many students to catch up and rise to the top by graduation. Top students from state flagships usually do better in graduate school admission than average students from HPMSC.</p>
<p>I’ve seen some very good high school students got crushed by the intense competition at Harvard and MIT in the first two years (in fields like math/physics, engineering, premed) and changed majors. The same students could have flourished in a less competitive environment, such as at some state flagship schools.</p>
<p>To clarify, he is an “average student” due to his UW GPA. During freshman and the first semester of sophomore, he wasn’t that academically focused. During the middle of sophomore year, something clicked and he has since gotten near straight A’s. He is great at math and science, but was just a late bloomer. </p>
<p>I was always told that he should go to FSU because it had the better Astrophysics programs. He doesn’t really care where he goes, as long as it gives him the best chance possible to get into one of his dream graduate schools.</p>
<p>What are his SAT/ACT scores?</p>