Don’t underestimate safety schools. With T20 schools accepting under 10% lots of excellent students are going to “safety” schools. There just aren’t enough seats. A true safety is one she would attend.
Maybe consider visiting a safety and a match school. Visiting schools where you have a 10% chance or less is risky. Wait until acceptance happens.
Maybe a well thought out ED strategy might be a boost for some schools.
Visiting B schools for S20 reinforced my opinion that outside of the T10 schools like Wharton or Stern there’s not much difference between #11 and #40. Grades, internships and attitude means more.
The larger B schools typically have an Honors program. The better ones look out for their Honors students. Something else to look at.
Thanks. I just did a very perfunctory review of the top undergrad business schools and Kelley seemed to check off a lot of boxes for us. They seemed to have a very robust career center and strong business alumni network which are also a big plus. I believe they accept 25% of their business students into their honors program when they’re a sophmore.
We wanted to visit a few big schools, a few LACs, and a few medium sized schools. Amherst and Williams are within driving distance so we can visit anytime. My nephew and niece attend Amherst so they share all the pros and cons of the school. If she got accepted to either of those she would study Economics and not business.
I say this often on CC (and IRL) but studying economics is not all that similar to studying business/finance. Econ gets theoretical (and dry) at higher levels, and definitely does not appeal to some students who desire business careers.
Your D is young to decide an Econ path right now, if she can take AP Econ in HS that could be good. If she keeps schools on the list that only have an Econ major, and not business majors, she needs to have a Plan B if she gets to a school like that in case she doesn’t like Econ.
If undecided between Econ and Business School, pick a school that offers both. It is a lot easier to switch to Econ (which is usually outside business school) from Business.
For example Middlebury would be an excellent LAC for Econ while WashU would have both options.
It’s really more due to that the fact that there are alumni working in those jobs, and the students network with them for these opportunities. There is no magic pathway from these schools to financial jobs…it takes hard work, good grades, and a strong networking game to secure internships.
Many of the finance firms take students from LACs with a variety of majors…math and related majors, the sciences, even English. I know students working as various flavors of financial analysts (IB, credit, corporate banking) who had those varying majors.
My sister called me a few months ago to see if I can help my nephew get a business related summer internship.
I asked her: Doesnt Amherst have a career center that helps kids find these jobs?
Her response was that the school kind of expects you to do it on your own. And the kids there are scary ambitious and will network like crazy. My nephew is very bright and hardworking but also laid back so I thought that was interesting.
I almost wonder if these LACs focus so much on learning while state schools are more pragmatic and really network with local companies to help their students find internships?
Im just spitballing. I have no evidence to support this (I dont want a mob of Amherst and proud Williams graduates descending on me).
My nephew is on my bad side because he wont get me Harrison Ford’s autograph (He’s classmates with his son). J/K.
While she may be ok at a large school - Kelley itself is really large. Yea great companies come but there are thousands and thousands of kids…in the major.
If she’s looking at LACs, then IU may not be right for her. Chasing pedigree for pedigree sake could end up disastrous. One has to be there day after day, year after year.
Schools like Elon and TCU may be more her speed or for a business focus Bentley may be a great safety. These schools place well. Remember 90%+ kids will end up in similar roles no matter where they go. And some schools are stronger in certain disciplines than others, regardless of overall rank.
I don’t think Kelley is looking for less kids but to impact the quality of the body if they raise. They are known as a top student safety and they probably want to lose that designation or like their MBA, which used to be top 8, they might see a ranking fall…which btw does not mean an outcomes fall. Too many people think one necessitates the other.
I’m simply suggestion to find the right school…,not one based on rank.
For example, what is she studying ? If accounting, Illinois better known. Supply Chain Mich State to make another big 10. Have you looked at the poets and quants rank ?
Unless you are doing I Banking, etc it matters less than you think.
I’m not stating Kelley isn’t a great school. What I’m wondering is - Kelley a great school for her given what you said above ?
You will see in life…likely where you or family members work…we have an IU reporting to a Kansas. We have a Vandy reporting to a Fairleigh Dickinson. I turned down IU and UT MBA for ASU. There are reasons people do things. Fior me, ASU paid me. My first job was in a program with 4 MBAs. A UCLA, Dartmouth, UCR, and myself. Many of these top companies are visiting or posting at many colleges. My son, an engineer, is at a low ranked but respected school. He interns with engineers from Ga Tech, Purdue, Wisconsin and more. He’s back a 2nd summer. His two Ga Tech roomies from last year didn’t get an invite. My point here is simply…the student and not the school will likely make the opportunity and wouldn’t you want her day to day to be optimized for the here and now as she’s living ? The outcome is no more predetermined at an IU vs William and Mary Vs an unranked school like Kentucky in the vast majority of cases.
If she ends up at IU or another large school and it’s right for her I’d say no issue. But is it right for her ? Find the right for her and that’s far beyond rank is all I’m suggesting. Also, for UF look at how they do classes the first two years…online…to make sure that is right for her.
Kelley is a great safety and you aren’t missing anything flaws in that plan, but as others have said it is HUGE.
Another good safety for her is Pitt. The business school doesn’t have as high of a ranking as IU, but it is significantly smaller. They accept around 350 in the freshman class, then another 150 or so transfer in. The students rave about the advising, and they guarantee an internship in the field of interest if the student follows certain steps (it may involve a one credit class and advisor meetings).
What Pitt has that IU doesn’t is rolling admissions. Your daughter could (and should) apply in August and she will hear by September.
Pitt certainly doesn’t have a LAC vibe, but it isn’t as impersonal as some larger state schools.
I dont disagree with anything you’re saying but we just dont have the time to find all the various safety schools that may potentially be a better fit. That’s why I call Kelley the Unicorn safety school because it seems so straight forward.
To maximize her time, I dont think it’s a good idea for her to be applying to 20 different universities with essays articulating why each of them are her dream school. Between all her activities, sports, EC’s, school work, etc etc, we’re trying to focus our attention on her main choices.
Maybe it’s misguided but she already wants to apply to Ross, take a shot at the UC schools, maybe Rice, Texas, Williams, Amherst, UF, and a few others.
I just dont think finding an equivalent alternative to Kelley as a safety will really move the needle for her and it’s also not very efficient when a safety by definition, is your least favorite choice.
If she strikes out on her Top 10 schools, well kid, Kelley it is.
I agree 20 apps are probably too much. Especially if you’re full-pay.
I disagree about not taking the time to find safeties/matches that fit. She’ll be applying to schools with 20% acceptance rates or less. She’s also OOS with no hooks. Acceptance odds are independent of each other.
A great safety isn’t so great if your D doesn’t like it. Kelley enrolls over 6k kids. That’s a lot.
Pitt would be a nice option. Small and well regarded B school. I’m a Pitt grad. Econ is not the same as a business degree. My undergrad degree is Economics.
@CFP my husband says the same thing-he wouldn’t be able to get into Business School either currently!
While you’re doing a Texas tour, I highly recommend swinging thru College Station and touring Texas A&M Mays Business School. I’ve got a current Mays/Business Honors student, and can’t say enough great things about Mays and TAMU. They also have a very large Economics program, which is in Liberal Arts.
Baylor is also another option, while you’re touring Texas. Hankamer Business School is outstanding! Economics is in their business school. Baylor loves out of state kids.
You’d be surprised at how many Longhorns have current Aggie students! Mays is a phenomenal business school.
(I married an Aggie, my dad and 2 brothers are UT grads…I get it)
There are plenty of kids who hate Kelley so don’t romanticize your “unicorn” of a safety. It’s great for many, terrible for some.
I get not wanting to belabor the safety, but my observation over the last couple of cycles- finding a few “sure bets” is the MOST important part of the college process, not the least. So sure- skip the visits, but there’s a huge distance between Williams/Amherst and Kelley, and perhaps finding another unicorn that is more similar to Williams/Amherst in vibe and focus would pay off.
LAC’s which do well in corporate recruiting- Swarthmore, Wellesley (exceptionally strong, given that it doesn’t have a business school), Smith, Villanova, Bowdoin, Bates, Middlebury. Closer to rock solid safety- Fairfield.
For my money, the single best “bet” for your D if she’s looking to get rich quick and then quit- Baruch. Cheap, she would be at the top of the class, the school does an exceptional job positioning the top kids for wall street jobs (the middle of the pack does fine, the bottom does OK…) and investing the money you’d save would start her career with a nice nest egg.
But to play devils advocate for a moment- if your D loves to write, why isn’t she looking at business careers which would take advantage of that? Not M&A level salaries, but good speechwriters make $250K. Good Investor Relations folks make 300-350K at public companies, multiples of that at a PE firm. A friend of mine is a ghost-writer for corporate books (you don’t really think that all these CEO’s writing “how to succeed” best sellers are actually writing them, do you?) Top, top earner by anyone’s standards- and the money is mostly up-front!!! No byline of course- just a “thank you for your invaluable suggestions” in the acknowledgements, but the cash makes up for the anonymity.
Why give up on her passion at the age of 17 instead of looking at college as a way to build on that passion???
You’d be surprised at how many Longhorns have current Aggie students! Mays is a phenomenal business school.