<p>According to you, which are the top five undergraduate schools for </p>
<p>a) biology
b) chemistry
c) physics
d) math (not a hard science, but related to physics)?</p>
<p>It is almost impossible to narrow down to 5. I will list universities. Someone else might be able to mention the excellent LACs.</p>
<p>Biology
Caltech
MIT
Yale
Harvard
U Wisconsin Madison</p>
<p>Chemistry
Caltech
UC Berkeley
Harvard
MIT
Columbia</p>
<p>Physics
Caltech
Harvard
Cornell
Princeton
MIT</p>
<p>Math
Princeton
UC Berkeley
Harvard
MIT
U Chicago</p>
<p>Best for what? </p>
<p>Undergrad teaching? Graduate school programs? Government research grants?</p>
<p>goto Caltech, and youll land a $70,000 paying job fresh out of college.</p>
<p>Ginny Weasley:</p>
<p>Please don't get 'PCB' syndrom and only think those are the only 'hard' sciences around. Geology is another hard science that is an excellent way to integrate the other sciences you mentioned above into your degree.</p>
<p>top schools for geology:</p>
<p>MIT
Berkeley
Wisconsin
Washington
Columbia (really has an environmental swing though)</p>
<p>edit:
east-coast LAC-wise (not as familiar with west-coast):</p>
<p>Franklin and Marshall
Williams
Bryn Mawr
William and Mary</p>
<p>It seems like math should have the privalage of having physics relate to it, as it was around without physics for a long time, and only formalized with physics a few thousand years ago or so.</p>
<p>Collegehelp, five schools is a starting point, do you have any longer lists of maybe 15 -20 in length? Those would probably help the poster more.</p>
<p>Math</p>
<p>Universities: Caltech, MIT, Harvard, Rice, Princeton, Carnegie Mellon, U Chicago, Yale, Brown, Stanford, Cornell, UC Berkeley, Dartmouth, Brandeis,
Duke, Wesleyan U, Polytechnic U, U Penn, Case Western Reserve, Johns Hopkins, Columbia, U Rochester, WUStL, Northwestern, Furman,
U Bridgeport </p>
<p>LACs: Harvey Mudd, Reed, Pomona, Swarthmore, Williams, Grinnell, St. Olaf, Haverford, Oberlin, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Carleton, Amherst, Rose-Hulman, Bryn Mawr, Mills, Kalamazoo, Knox, Cooper Union, Bowdoin, Vassar, Wellesley, Birmingham Southern College, Whitman College, Union, College of Wooster, Stevens Institute of Technology, Lawrence U, Smith, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology, Bucknell, Hendrix</p>
<p>Biology</p>
<p>Universities: Caltech, MIT, Harvard, U Chicago, Yale, Princeton, Cornell, Stanford, Rice, U Rochester, Brown, Duke, Johns Hopkins, UC Berkeley, Wesleyan U, SUNY College of Environmental Sci & Forestry, William and Mary, Case Western Reserve, Dartmouth College, U Penn, Michigan, Wisconsin, UNC Chapel Hill, UT Austin, UCLA</p>
<p>LACs: Swarthmore, Reed, Haverford, Kalamazoo, Mount Holyoke, Carleton, Oberlin, Earlham, Harvey Mudd, Wellesley, Amherst, Lawrence U, Grinnell, Bowdoin, Pomona, Hendrix, Davidson, Williams, Bryn Mawr, Bates, Allegheny, Smith, Occidental, St. Olaf, Hiram, Beloit, Macalester, Knox, Hampshire, Bucknell, Colorado College, Juniata</p>
<p>Chemistry</p>
<p>Universities: Caltech, MIT, William and Mary, Texas Lutheran, Furman, Minnesota, U Chicago, Rice, Harvard, U Richmond, St. John's, Dartmouth, UC Berkeley, Illinois, Michigan, Cornell, Columbia, Wisconsin, UCLA, UT Austin, Yale, Northwestern, Indiana, UNC Chapel Hill, Penn State</p>
<p>LACs: Harvey Mudd, Wabash, Reed, Carleton, Bowdoin, Grinnell, Haverford, Franklin and Marshall, College of Wooster, Bryn Mawr, Allegheny, Knox, Occidental, Bates, Juniata, Kalamazoo, Williams, Swarthmore, Oberlin, Andrews, Holy Cross, St. Olaf, Hendrix, Hope, Davidson, Ursinus, Kenyon, Macalester, Centre, Wellesley, Wheaton, Trinity U, Lawrence U, Colgate, Ripon, Drew, Willamette, Beloit, Augustana, Hiram, Lake Forest, Gustavus Adolphus, Rose-Hulman, Albion, Amherst, Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Hamline, Bethel</p>
<p>Physics
Universities: Caltech, MIT, Princeton, Rice, Harvard, U Chicago, Case Western Reserve, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Yale, U Rochester, Cornell, Stanford, UC Berkeley, IIT, U Dallas, Columbia, Brown, Carnegie Mellon, Johns Hopkins, Brandeis, Illinois, Washington, Maryland, Rutgers, Michigan, SUNY Stony Brook, Ohio State</p>
<p>LACs: Harvey Mudd, Carleton, Reed, Swarthmore, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology, Haverford, Grinnell, Williams, Whitman, Amherst, Goshen, Marlboro, Rose-Hulman, Stevens Institute of Technology, Oberlin, Wabash, Gustavus Adolphus, Colorado School of Mines, Bryn Mawr College, Lawrence U, Wesleyan U, Bethel, Pomona, William and Mary, St. Olaf College, Beloit, Bates, Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Kalamazoo, Earlham, Hastings, Kenyon, Rhodes, Macalester, Franklin and Marshall, Bowdoin, Clarkson</p>
<p>Don't forget Caltech for Geology--widely regarded as the top place for geology in the country (unless you're talking paleobiology in which case you're SOL).</p>
<p>cornellgrad</p>
<p>yessss</p>
<p>for chem/phys/math you can't beat harvey mudd.</p>
<p>(for undergrad)</p>
<p>CUgrad:</p>
<p>I took my list of the top 5 for geology directly from the AGI's publication as reported in 2003. The list is of the top 25 geology PhD programs, and can be used for undergraduate opportunities as well (i.e. greater opportunites for undergraduate field work and research). Out of that list, 79% of the geology PhD.s awarded were from these institutions. Plus these schools granted 48% of all doctorates held by faculty. CalTech does not rank in the top five, however, ranks 12th, tied with Illinois. </p>
<p>Also, btw, CalTech doesn't have a faculty member specializing in metamorphic petrology (my field of choice)...so as you say, it doesn't have everything...Furthermore, CalTech is normally used purely as a graduate school as opposed to an undergraduate school in any field...</p>
<p>goto Caltech, and youll land a $70,000 paying job fresh out of college.</p>
<p>Methinks that has more to do with the field than the school
My nephew who just graduated from U colorado Boulder- just got a job 5 months out of school that pays $60,000 with his aeronautical engineering degree</p>
<p>
[quote]
Out of that list, 79% of the geology PhD.s awarded were from these institutions. Plus these schools granted 48% of all doctorates held by faculty. CalTech does not rank in the top five, however, ranks 12th, tied with Illinois.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think that has something to do with the size of Caltech. Caltech is a very small school with a small student body. Surely you're not proposing to punish Caltech just because it has few students? </p>
<p>
[quote]
goto Caltech, and youll land a $70,000 paying job fresh out of college.</p>
<p>Methinks that has more to do with the field than the school . My nephew who just graduated from U colorado Boulder- just got a job 5 months out of school that pays $60,000 with his aeronautical engineering degree
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree. For example, the average salary of engineering grads of New Mexico Tech in 2004 was nearly 55k. I had never even heard of New Mexico Tech until just a few weeks ago. Also keep in mind that New Mexico Tech grads tend to hang around New Mexico, and New Mexico is a pretty cheap place to live. That 55k salary can go pretty far. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I think that has something to do with the size of Caltech. Caltech is a very small school with a small student body. Surely you're not proposing to punish Caltech just because it has few students?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not at all...this is a list for graduate students, not undergraduates officially as I had said. It is quite true that CalTech has a very small undergraduate body, but has an enormous graduate student body. The graduate school at CalTech is quite large and much larger than most geology departments across the country. </p>
<p>For example, the two tied at 12th, CalTech and Illinois...</p>
<p>Number of graduate students in geology (approximate):</p>
<p>CalTech: ~90
Illinois: ~40</p>
<p>Therefore, CalTech has more graduate students in geology and far more going for their PhDs than Illinois. However, they are both ranked at the same place on the list by AGI. I'm unsure of how they exactly come up with the rankings. But the low position by CalTech may be in part due to their close association with JPL and many students likely go to work there full-time post-PhD rather than go into academia.</p>
<p>I never said the list didn't have flaws, I was just simply stating what they said the top 5 overall programs in geology are and it is a much more recent review than USNews which is very faulty for overall good geology schools.</p>
<p>I would add UR to Chemistry</p>
<p>Also remember Penn State-UP for meteorology :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I was just simply stating what they said the top 5 overall programs in geology are and it is a much more recent review than USNews which is very faulty for overall good geology schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, ophiolate, consider this. Here's the NRC geosciences ranking, probably the most respected of all the doctoral rankings. </p>
<p>1 Cal Tech 4.87
2 MIT 4.67
3 Cal Berkeley 4.45
4 Columbia 4.38
5 Stanford 4.33
6 Cal San Diego 4.23
7 Chicago 4.22
8 Harvard 4.20
9 Cornell 4.15
10 UCLA 4.11</p>
<p>Here's the USNews graduate rankings in graduate geology </p>
<ol>
<li> California Institute of Technology 4.9 </li>
<li> Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.8 </li>
<li> Stanford University (CA) 4.5
University of California-Berkeley 4.5 </li>
<li> Columbia University (NY) 4.3
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 4.3 </li>
<li> Harvard University (MA) 4.1
Pennsylvania State University-University Park 4.1
University of Arizona 4.1 </li>
<li> University of Chicago<br></li>
<li> Cornell University (NY) 3.9
Johns Hopkins University (MD) 3.9
Princeton University (NJ) 3.9
University of California-Los Angeles 3.9
University of California-San Diego 3.9
University of Texas-Austin 3.9 </li>
</ol>
<p>Yeah, a few differences here and there but basically, the 2 rankings align with each other.</p>
<p>Add Mount Holyoke to LACs for Chemistry. Add Brandeis for biology. biochemistry.</p>
<p>sakky:</p>
<p>Both of those rankings are out of date imho and as a geologist, I would tend to appreciate the views of the geological community rather than standardized sources. Standardized sources tend to include the earth sciences as a whole. Geology is considerably different than meterology and marine science, but they tend to get lumped together into a broad category of 'Earth Science'. </p>
<p>The OP wanted personal views of what the strongest departments were, and I believe I gave her them to the best of my knowledge. Each department has strengths and flaws, MIT and Caltech included. As for a strong undergraduate education in geology, I stand by my list of the top 5. It includes overall selective colleges and not as selective colleges, to cater to a larger variety of students. It is in no way exhaustive of the excellent places to get an amazing education in geology.</p>