the best research universities are classified R1: Doctoral Universities – Highest Research Activity by the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States
in general, in my view, the best state universities are generally the University of x state and that university’s main state rival, typically a large land grant university, like Clemson, or a tech oriented public college, like G Tech.
Agreed. For sure, the state flagships receive most of the higher education funding for that state while the other state colleges in that state (if there are any other ones) get less. That said, there is a pecking order in terms of intra-state quality and funding.
For example, one of the colleges my son looked at is Indiana University, but only the prestigious Kelley School of Business. Indiana U as a whole is an excellent university (ranked about the same as Binghamton), however, their business school and music school are outstanding—both ranked top 10 in the nation. They also have one of the top foreign language programs on the planet, offering courses in active and “dead” languages so esoteric that most folks have never heard of them. Language scholars and professionals come from around the world to study languages and dialects found nowhere else, especially in the summer.
For the last month, my son could not decide between Binghamton SOM and Kelley SOM. Kelley is the better school, but, even with a generous Kelley dean’s scholarship, it is still $11,000 more annually than Binghamton. He therefore was leaning toward Bing. Then, this past weekend, NY Governor Cuomo and the NYS legislature passed the pending law granting free tuition to families earning under $100,000 one annum. That changed the calculus for us. He decided to attend Kelley. Why? Because Binghamton’s already high student-faculty ratio is destined to rise even higher once the multitudes of new students swarm into the SUNY schools to take advantage of the FREE TUITION beginning this fall. There is no doubt in my mind that all the SUNY schools, and especially the best ones, will be SRO overcrowded, oversubscribed, underfunded and busting at the seams. The only solution would be substantial increased funding for SUNY to build out their infrastructure and hire many, many more faculty. And, knowing how this state operates, that ain’t gonna happen. Andrew Cuomo, by opening the SUNY floodgates to the unwashed masses, just watered down the SUNY education. It will take 3-4 years to fully manifest, but it WILL gradually degrade!
@RamDass You know tuition doesn’t affect acceptance rates. Students still have to get accepted into SUNY Binghamton in order to attend the college. I know you might reply that more accepted students will attend Binghamton who previously could not afford it but that’s only a small number of students. Also, Governor Cuomo’s bill only covers tuition; students still have to pay for room and board. As a result, cost will still be a factor.
But how does it improve the academic quality of the collectively average SUNY system, exactly? I fail to see how it does.
@RamDass your son made the right decision to attend IU Kelley over Binghamton. Congratulations to your family.
Is each SUNY going to increase enrollment? If not, with more applicants there will a more competitive application resulting in higher average enrollment stats w/o increasing enrollment/crowding/class size issues.
If they do substantially increase enrollment, then it is another matter.
@LBad96 It might actually improve academic quality because SOME students who are talented but might not be able to afford to go SUNY Binghamton might actually attend. Also, the main purpose of this bill is to actually aid students in paying for college, not increase academic quality.
Mahindra, Wayneandgarth, Lbad96,
All valid points you’ve made. And all, at this point, are mere speculation, including mine.
IF, and only if, SUNY does NOT increase enrollment at each college then acceptance rates will decrease, due to a probable increase in quality in applicants due to a larger applicant pool. Therefore, their selectivity will rise. However, I don’t believe this will happen.
A little historical perspective provides context and, perhaps, insight into a probable (possible) outcome. I’m of a vintage that lived through the early 1970’s, when SUNY did this the first time. There was essentially free tuition and open enrollment (later revoked many years later) and this caused the problems I fear will happen this time. In addition, over the last 40 years or so, other states have experimented with this approach and it has often led to increased enrollment and resulting problems.
Despite offering free tuition, SUNY will be tempted to view it as a cash cow. They will probably, in my view, increase enrollment and not build out infrastructure or add faculty because they need the money. Look at the endowments of the SUNY schools; they are pathetic—a mere fraction of a fraction of what the vast majority of other public schools have. Moreover, SUNY’s claim that the cost of the free tuition will be borne by the tiny (200$ per annum) tuition increase for those over the income threshold is ridiculous. They have been raising tuition about that amount for EVERYONE for many years; now, that pool will be smaller. Finally, those very low income students also receive financial aid from other sources, lessening or eliminating the need for SUNY to give that large cohort free tuition. Governor Cuomo is very shrewd, using smoke and mirrors to not show all his cards; there are more assumptions and expectations (by NYS) to this plan than what the press releases state.
In the military, there is an expression that I think is pertinent to this discussion: Mission Creep. It means that what a plan/proposal/intended goal starts out as often expands and changes as it progresses into the future. After a period of time what you get often is very different than what you planned. Considering that this has happened before with SUNY (and some other states) I therefore think there is a probability, not just a possibility, that these problems will occur with the SUNY plan.
Governor Cuomo is intending to run for president in the next election and he views this plan as a tactic to burnish his image with the largest bloc of voters—those earning below the threshold. We all know what plans born of political intentions can result in.
I hope, for the sake of SUNY, and all the students deserving of a fine education in that system, I am wrong.
There is money to be made off of free tuition students; there is profit built in to all transactions. For example, housing and meals at Binghamton is $14,500 per year; I would estimate it costs the university less than half that.
Taxpayer subsidies that cover the operating costs of most colleges and universities ranges from around $8,000 to more than $100,000 for each bachelor’s degree awarded, with most public institutions averaging more than $60,000 per degree, according to an analysis by the American Institutes for Research (AIR) and Nexus Research and Policy Center (Nexus).
The financial figures reflect the amount of money colleges and universities receive in direct government support and tax breaks. They do not include loans and grants provided by state and federal governments (or other outside sources) to help students meet tuition costs.
Have you ever sat down with a car salesman to buy a new car? The math they use on the sales order is so convoluted and complex that it is hard to understand—purposely so. They are playing games with the numbers. Manufacturers, for example, give special, hidden, unadvertised discounts and rebates to dealers that are often not revealed. Most of the time dealers do not pass these discounts along to buyers.
The “fuzzy math” colleges show to prospective students and their families does not reveal their
profit on each student.
Governor Cuomo has a well-deserved reputation for being a snake oil salesman—as sneaky and disingenuous as they come. He is a far cry from his father, who was a great governor of NYS in the early 1980’s, for 12 years.
An update to the issue of whether SUNY expects an enrollment increase due to the advent of the free tuition policy at SUNY campuses. They DO, just as I presumed.
Check out the link. Read it and weep.