Having advised many families to consider community college over a 4-year college for borderline students, this is not good news:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/better-struggle-good-school-ace-130018824.html
This is troubling from a financial perspective. Should families gamble high 4-year tuition on a borderline student, or risk the issues raised in this article by sending such a student to a CC?
I think the answer depends on the reason that the student is borderline-is a substance use issue gaining momentum, are there mental health issues that are getting worse, or did the student lack maturity earlier in high school that is reflected in their GPA? I have seen disasters as kids who need more supervision head off to independent living. I have also seen success stories when students go from erratic academic high school records (due to immaturity or boredom in high school) to flourishing in college when they have a choice about what they are studying.
It also depends on the availability and quality of support at the four year university.
Well that’s a grand leap from data based on marginal students at regional state schools and CCs. Maybe he needs another stats class.
I have always questioned the universal wisdom of sending the marginal student to a CC, just judging from some of the slackers I know. They are as likely to coast by with a 2.5-3.0, which won’t get them into good 4-year colleges, whereas they will do the same and muddle through if they matriculate directly into a 4-year institution. Some kids will mature, and buckle down, but I believe just as many are likely to hang out with the high school friends who are also staying home instead of living in an academic environment.
This is an extremely good study, because they are comparing otherwise equal students who were just over the cutoff, or just under it. The SAT cutoff, by the way, is 430/400.
Just throwing some thoughts out. Perhaps they have a better shot at getting that degree because they like where they are and don’t want to get kicked out. Perhaps many aren’t happy at CC, didn’t want to be there to begin with, so don’t have the motivation to stay. The grad rate at CC’s are quite low, so I agree with the author.
Perhaps someone in Georgia can weigh in on the specifics of CCs and the least selective state universities in that state. Different states may be very different in CC quality.
Also, would it have been better to compare students who chose CCs even though they could have gone to universities with similar students who went to universities?
That would have been worse. Way worse, because there might be something different about people who choose to go to university than people who could go but didn’t.
If you look only at students around the borderline, you capture students who would have gone to university, but didn’t because their SATs were just a teeny bit too low. You’re implicitly comparing students who would have gone to university if they could, to students just like them who would have gone to university and did.
I’ve often wondered how CC students fare when they transfer into regular University in upper level classes. It’s got to be a big transition as far as difficulty and expectations.
The conclusion is wrong because the marginal student is unlikely to be among the best in a CC.
But I agree that if you are marginal (disadvantaged, lazy, whatever), going to the best school you can get in to is the best idea. The answer may be different if you are smart and driven.
My friend’s son went to CC, then on to a regional campus of the state flagship. His son said that the difficulty of CC classes is between high school and 4 year. So, it’s probably a change, but not as much as from H.S. to 4 year.
Correct me if I am wrong, but California CC’s are not open enrollment are they? In NYS most if not all CCs are open enrollment, which can have an impact on quality of the classroom experience.
Not all CCs are the same in terms of quality of education. You need to know what quality your CC can offer and then compare that to the 4 year college. I happen to live near one of the top 10 CCs in the country, so my view will probably be different from someone who lives near a CC that is a 1/2 step above an average high school.
Also, as other posters have mentioned, you need to get at the root of the issue with the student. I certainly know students who have terrifically floundered at their 4 year college. A relative who went to excellent schools all his life (his mom is a teacher at an expensive high school) went off to some name brand college. All the cards were lined up in his favor. He floundered during his first year and had to come home. Took some time off and then went to the local CC (the one near me that is quite excellent) and got his life back on course and got his AS degree. The he went on to a state uni and did well.
I think in retrospect, he should have begen at this CC and then gone on to state uni. He would have much more likely to have skipped the ‘floundering for a while’ step.
I too live near an excellent community college. They align their course offerings closely with local and state employer needs, and boast some excellent faculty members that teach STEM courses. Our state’s four-year colleges welcome transfers from our local CC because they are well-prepared to enter the system as juniors. So, to echo Bookreader and others–not all CC’s are equal!
California CCs are open enrollment.
When UC StatFinder was up, you could get it to show average first year junior transfer GPA for those transferring from CCs, stratified by prior college GPA (i.e. GPA at CC). From what I remember, the top prior college GPA range of 3.8-4.0 students tended to lose 0.2 to 0.5 after transfer (i.e. average first year junior GPA of 3.4 to 3.7 at UC, some variation by campus). The difference shrank at lower GPA levels, disappearing at around the 3.0 level (obviously mainly at the less selective UCs).
Of course, this is specific to California CCs to UCs, and may not apply to transfer combinations of other CCs and universities (including CSUs and non-California CCs and universities).
Students just making/missing test score cutoffs are statistically similar. A huge difference is in choosing the more difficult 4 year college knowing one needs to work hard and choosing the more comfortable academic fit. The first student is reaching high while the second is staying within a comfort zone. Colleges only admit students that have enough ability to graduate- someone has to be last but still does have the potential to make it. I’m sure the atmosphere at a CC is not one where everyone, or even most, expect to get a four year degree. This assumes making other factors involved, such as finances, are out of the equation.
Sure, but the hypothesis is that among the students just missing the cutoffs, some of them would have gone to the 4 year college if they could. We’re comparing the students with the 830 M+CR SATS who chose to go to 4 year college with the students with the 820 M+CR SATS who would have gone to 4 year college if their SATs were a tiny bit higher. The rest of the populations of the two groups are the same.
"I’ve often wondered how CC students fare when they transfer into regular University in upper level classes. It’s got to be a big transition as far as difficulty and expectations.
This was not my experience. My community college was small and demanding. I was very well prepared for the switch to university. I found it easier to “hide” in the larger classes at the university than I had at my community college. Some of the most demanding classes I’ve ever taken were at the CC. After university I went on to earn an MS. I think CC can be a great start for some students. It certainly as for me. And it was for my mother, who eventually went on to earn her doctorate.
Within the last five years, Ive taken courses at an excellent community college.
My nterest was vocational, but I also took several qtrs of the same college transfer class, with students who were planning to transfer after two years.
Ive stayed in touch with many of them, and virtually all have graduated. Most from the university of washington, a couple from other Washington universities.
Community colleges are not all alike, any more than all universities are alike.
I don’t think this article addresses all the issues.
Universities are more apt to reach out to students and tend to have more checks in place those first 2 years. Students can be encouraged to speak to advisers if it’s not mandatory. There are usually some clear lists of what needs to be taken. Universities often have online systems that help you keep track. Communication is easier when you have 4 basic levels of progress within the school. There are R.A’s in the dorm who will often remind freshman and sophomores about class registration days and such. Students are in classes with kids on the same track (all aiming for undergraduate degree with lots of overlap in the types of things they need to graduate.)
Community colleges service so many different types of students with different goals and states of progress. CC’s require more independence than a university. You can take classes for years and never see a counselor… some might not even know it’s important to do so and certainly, the CC isn’t set-up to contact these students. It can take some serious research to figure out what exactly are your options when it comes to transferring. It’s easy to make mistakes. You can’t count of your peers to have the info as their goals could be totally different. A marginal student at a CC can very easily get lost and not have the confidence nor trust in school administration to reach out for help. Even if they are doing great in their classes, managing the business end of CC can be daunting. This isn’t usually the case with driven, academically sound kids who are at a CC for strictly financial reasons.
On top of all this is the financial aspect. Community college is cheaper but at least in our area, there seems to be an expectation that a full-time student will also be working (like 20+ hours a week.) There doesn’t seem to be that expectation with most university students (at least the first couple years and those that work are often like mine… less than 10 hours a week at an on-campus job.)