<p>I knew this would happen. After a year of visiting LACs and considering the state flagship univ (big ten), my DD is now thinking about a 'lesser' state university that will be closer to her HS boyfriend'c college and that will be attended by her best girlfriend. My dtr has been in the local gifted program since since it was started in 4th grade, she is in top 10% of her class, her test scores put her at/above 75th percentile of all schools she has visited, she has a semester of college credits in addition to any APs, and we have prepaid her tuition at any state school (can be applied toward LAC tuition). The big ten flagship is equidistant to the boyfriend's school and has great depts in any possible majors as well as 30K+ students (versus 2K at the LACs). The new state school she is considering is inbetween size-wise--around 13K and closer to a major metropolis than the others, which could foster her musical and artistic interests.</p>
<p>However, whereas her stellar qualifications would make her just at 75th percentile at the flagship where 50% of freshman were also in top 10% of their HS class--she might not even make the very strict campus honor program--she would be a top scholar at this other state school. Her ACT/SAT, GPA and class rank are very much above the average range for incoming frosh putting her in the top 5% of her class, she would automatically be in this college's honors program, the school has 2-3 depts with national rank (her major/minor depts would be good) but only 25% of students live on campus, many are transfers from 2-yr schools and are probably from small rural areas (very different demographics from her other possibilities). </p>
<p>She is trying to sell us on this school by telling us that she would be the 'top of the heap' and she might like to be smarter than the average kid rather than competing with others where she might not be the best. I am not sure I buy this logic. I fear she will just do what it takes to do better than 'the average kid' and not meet her potential, that she will slide by. On the other hand, she would get more attention from the profs being a top student (this school even offers competitive full tuition + R&B for 8 semesters to candidates at her level--how could I say no if she gets a free ride?!). But will a school like this affect her chances for professional school (law or clinical psych) whereas good grades at the flagship or a top LAC might boost her chances, or at least her opportunities?</p>
<p>I've tried to explain she can't base her decision on her high school love life, because things can/will change for one or both at different colleges. However, this dtr doesn't handle stress too well, and being one of the 50% in the top 10 percent might get to her in a crowd of 30K students, so maybe she should consider being a big fish in a smaller pond, as she puts it. One other complication is that her sister who is just behind her had hoped to go to this school for it professional school (DPh program) and refuses to attend the same college where her big sis has "passed through." Oh dear! Any insights are more than welcome--we begin completing those college apps next month!</p>
<p>Your daughter should apply to the flagship school, the lesser state school, and any LACs she might be interested in, and choose which school to attend some time between April 1 and May 1, 2007. She should keep her options open. Things may look very different in the spring.</p>
<p>Yep, agree with calmom. Who your daughter is, what she wants, what she perceives she wants, what she will need and her various relationships (sister, boyfriend, her peers) can all easily change between now, August 2006 and May 1, 2007.</p>
<p>I know this was very true for my son last year when he did his apps. And even with EA and early admits in hand he waited until late April to make his decision.</p>
<p>She should apply to both state schools and some of the others she was seriously interested in.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree. If she were mine, I'd recommend applying to all (actually, I discouraged all of mine from the 30,000+ student schools) and in April spending the night at one LAC, the midsized and the large, before deciding.</p>
<p>I agree. My son changed his mind about what he wanted in the time between filling out the applications and getting the acceptances. All March I heard of his senior friends saying that they were going one place and then after May first I would hear that they were going someplace else.</p>
<p>This is a new dimension for "Fit" - the school closest to your boyfriend that your parents will acccept. Let's be honest, are you kind of hoping this BF is not the one?</p>
<p>Also, remember this immortal ditty from The Fantasticks:</p>
<p>Dog's got to bite, a mule's got to bray
Soldiers must fight and preachers must pray
And children, I guess, must get their own way
The minute that we say "No"</p>
<p>Sure as a June comes right after May
Sure as the night comes right after day
You can be sure the Devil's to pay
The minute that you say "No"
Make sure you never saaaaaaaaay
Nooooooooooo</p>
<p>I tend to agree with you that going to the new state school would be a mistake, but at worst it's a survivable mistake, not a disaster. And probably she's rationalizing, but maybe there's a grain of truth there about her feelings. And it's nine months 'til she makes an actual decision, i.e., about twice the length of an average high school romance. So I would not make a crisis out of this, try to make certain she keeps some options open that you like better, and treat her like a mature decisionmaker in the hopes that that's what she'll be.</p>
<p>Story: One of my nieces transferred to her HS boyfriend's college after her freshman year, moving from Prestigious University in Hip City to Middling University in Middle Nowhere. Tongues went cluck. Worked out fine educationally (she was a big fish in a little pond, but made intelligent choices once there). The couple broke up in the middle of their senior years, broke back together six months later, and seems to have broken up again last winter (2 years post-grad) -- over niece's refusal to set a timetable for leaving her current job, which keeps them separated for 9-10 months a year.</p>
<p>One of my cousins gave me the advice to never, ever go to college because of proximity to your boyfriend. I took her advice to heart including three long years when my now husband was at Caltech and I was at Columbia. No regrets. And I do agree - it's pretty hard to tell where you'll end up in the heap in college.</p>
<p>My high school stats didn't predict that I would graduate magna cum laude with highest honors in my major. And the truth is that while that was probably an accurate assessment - the major I picked was something I excelled in. Your child might have the same experience.</p>
<p>I agree to have her apply to all 3 options, LAC, state and flagship.
My D's experience with locating due to boyfriend and best friend, ruined her freshman year. She went to the state school to be near both, was miserable, boyfriend loved his school, ending up breaking up.
They were the perfect couple, but did not survive all the pressures of 1st year whether close geographically or not. A lot of hurt and disappointment. Sometimes I think if she had ben happier in school and further away they may have at least remained friends.
D is transferring to a LAC with good rep. in an environment where I know she will thrive and be happy this year. She is much more excited about going to school this year as she knows it is the right fit.
Keep options open, find the right environment to be happy, best thing for a relationship in the long run.
Good luck!</p>
<p>I was a big fish in a small pond, and I hated it. But it was a very, very small pond (about 800 students). Ironically, the catalyst to get me out of Middling LAC and transfer to Prestigious Public University, which I loved and thrived at, was to join my then boyfriend, now husband. This is probably not helpful information at all.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Let's be honest, are you kind of hoping this BF is not the one?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't think that is the case here at all. But I'll speak for myself as a parent of two teenage daughters now in college. I could adore my D's HS boyfriend but even so, I would NOT want my D to make her college selections with the boyfriend factor in mind. I would want my D to select a school by the usual college criteria and her own personal preferences unrelated to where her boyfriend will be. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking the actual guy on the parent end. I think MANY HS romantic relationships do not last and it would be a shame to pick a school with the relationship in mind when the relationship may end either before college starts or once in college when you meet a wider range of peers. I think if the relationship is truly meant to be, then it will endure with the separation of colleges. I would want my child to start college fresh with open eyes of the possibilities out there. Ideally, I would not want her to be tied down by strings from high school, though if she wanted to keep dating the HS boyfriend, it would be her choice to do so. But I would want her choice of college to be whatever she'd have chosen with no prior boyfriend in mind. </p>
<p>Frankly, when my kids date in HS, by the way, I never even contemplated if the boy was "the one". I guess it is possible but I never thought of it as likely.</p>
<p>PS , while some are giving personal stories, I'll join....I met my hubby in October of my freshman year of college.</p>
<p>I've been the big fish in the (not at all little but academically less challenging) pond and it has its up and its downs. On the one hand, it is great to be the best student in your class but the truth is it gets boring after a while. And once you get used to always being the top of the heap it is hard sometimes to adjust to being less than that.
But, as a number of people have said, high school doesn't always predict how you will do in college, I was a good but not excellent student in my challenging private high school and then went to a college that was not up to my level (even at that point) and ended up graduating a year early summa cum laude with tons of honors. No one at my high school would ever have predicted it, they admit it.
I don't think your daughter should sacrifice the better school for her boyfriend, if they are meant to be, they will survive and if not, well then the superior school will be better for her.</p>
<p>A slightly different perspective. I know a young couple who are attending top schools, in separate towns. The GF is attending a top LAC in a remote location, the BF is at a top uni in a great college town. The GF has structured her schedule in such a way that she can be with he BF practically every weekend. As a result, her classes are not chosen for their intrinsic valeu, but for scheduling purposes. She also spends huge amount of time on the road as she is dependent on public transportation. She is not able to make friends at her college; she has gotten to know some of her BF's college friends, but that is not the same thing.
They are both great kids, and maybe they will stay together. But I feel her college experience is being dramatically affected by proximity to her BF. In some ways, it would have been better if they were so distant from one another that she could not visit him as often as she does.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, a teenager in love is not doing much rational thinking. </p>
<p>I met hubby as a 17 year old freshman. We instantly became best friends and soon "outgrew" our h.s. BF & GF. It was (and is) a great choice, but an extremely lucky one. The thought of my 15 year old meeting & beginning a relationship with her future husband in a few years is terrifying! </p>
<p>I had something of this experience in reverse, actually. I met and fell in crush with my future spouse the winter of my junior (her sophmore) year in college, but we didn't become involved until just before my graduation. In the interim, when I was deciding where to go to law school, I chose the least prestigious of three options. Part of my thinking was bigger fish/smaller pond, and part of it was putting as many miles as possible between me and this girl who I thought had rejected me. (My "best" option would probably have been staying where I was.) My parents tore their hair out.</p>
<p>Then it turned out she wasn't rejecting me at all, and we were stuck a continent apart. When she graduated, she moved to where I was to look for a job. Her parents tore THEIR hair out. Two years later, I moved cross-country again for a job, and she followed me to grad school in a not-too-distant city, forgoing very substantial resident tuition savings had she stayed where she was for grad school. </p>
<p>Twenty-five years later, we are approaching our 23rd wedding anniversary. Things worked out extremely well for me at the law school I chose -- much better than would have been the case at either of the others, I'm positive. I'm not sure my wife got as good a deal, but she is nice enough not to complain much to me about it.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, our daughter is a year older than my wife was when we met. That is scaaaaaaaaaaaary! (On the other hand, my wife actually let herself get upset when our son's middle-school girlfriend broke up with him. My wife felt -- probably accurately -- that it was unlikely any eventual daughter-in-law was going to be an improvement. She knew intellectually, but not emotionally, that it is not realistic to anticipate a lifelong relationship with a girl your son dates in 7th and 8th grades, even if both kids are really great.)</p>
<p>I can only share some personal experiences. My oldest went where he "fit" academically. High school girlfriend (who is now wife) went to another school, but they maintained relationship through the 5 years of his school and then her finishing up. Youngest went to where he is middle academically, school is smallish (5000), and at first he wished he'd done the big fish thing (at least academically), but by end of fresh year, he admitted he would have been bored and irritated being in classes with students not as motivated. My closest friend's son went to a school where he received the most money, but academically he was probably in the top 1-5%--he is staying through soph. year, but then is transferring as he said it is "sad to receive a 4.0 for essentially doing nothing and when your college is tremendously easier than high school was".</p>
<p>I really appreciate all these insights, posted and private. I actually like DD's BF but also know and recall how quickly romantic urges can change. If the relationship is to prove longlasting, it will endure academic separation. College plays a large role in determining one's future course, opportunities, outlook, friendships, employment, geographical locale, perhaps even politics or faith (or lack thereof), and sometimes mate. Choosing a college is one decision where self-knowledge; introspection; as well as personal dreams, aspirations and interests should, I feel, take precedence over relationships with someone else, be it family, friends or true-like/true-love. I agree that being surrounded by lesser studentscan be boring and not inspire one to reach further or try harder. (what I worry about.) I also agree that, another of my DD's current sayings, "it isn't where you go it is what you do with it." I am glad to be reminded that she does, after all, have till mid-April to make the commitment, even though there will be a dozen apps, scholarship interviews, second visits and final overnights aplenty before then and in spite of hoped for early acceptances. It is in her best interest to apply at her selected LACs, the flagship (U of Illinois) and another state school as a safety (which one can never really call U of ILL), leaving all options open. Since we've prepaid the state schools' tuition, there is less need to worry about the scholarships to be offered (we hope) from the LACs. Like all parents, I simply want her to be happy, to be successful, to feel fulfilled in life as well as in her college choice. I further agree that being a small fish in a small pond would be the worst choice, but one I don't think she would knowingly choose. I will attempt to remain nonjudgmental as we begin the paper trails this fall, and be more of a sounding board so dtr can find her own way with a minimum of nudging. It was hard enough being young in the Dark Ages 30 yrs ago; I can't imagine the extra stresses our teens face today--although I must admit the 'closest to BF/GF' criterion of school selection applied only to one of my HS class mates back then and I never expected it to rear its head in my dtr's case. Live and learn!!</p>
<p>Bookmom: put me solidly in the camp with those who point out that a lot of changes take place in a kid between August and the following May. We saw it happen with ours. Things that were important in August became less so in April, and the reverse; likewise with people. When the acceptances are lined up and the time comes to decide, you may be surprised as to how things work out.</p>
<p>Other things: big fish/pond vs. little fish/pond - more important is what you do with the position. Big fish in a "lesser" school can result in a high GPA and high standing for law school admission, for instance - can result in working or closely with professors than other students - can result in being the recipient and beneficiary of good teaching, if the professor is good, which in turn can result in great recommendations for graduate school, if that's what turns out to occur. It really depends more on what your D does with whatever opportunities present themselves.</p>
<p>My experiences: I am a native of New York City living for a long time in California. How did that come to happen? Mainly because after working for a while and starting to look for a new job I noticed that a number of my friends weren't staying in New York just because of their friends but were leaving to take great jobs or opportunities elsewhere, so I decided that I didn't necessarily have to stay in New York either. Same, hopefully, will apply to your D.</p>
<p>Also, I went to a fine college that, as it happened, had a large number of commuting students. Purely coincidentally I became friends with one and then with her friends. Result - had two groups of friends, some living on campus, some commuting, and got occasional invitations to dinners with the families of my commuting friends.</p>
<p>Bookmom, again - I wouldn't worry about the proximity issue until next spring. I think you should actually encourage your daughter to apply to one or more schools near the boyfriend, as long as she also applies elsewhere -- there certainly is no reason to shut the door on that possibility. My d's bf attends school in Boston, and she applied to 3 colleges in Boston or nearby; she was accepted at one. She also applied to college in other cities, and she will be attending school in New York. I thought that at least one of her Boston choices was odd, as it didn't offer her desired major -- but as soon as I realized that she was probably focusing primarily on location, I encouraged the application. She was looking at big universities in a big city... the world wouldn't have ended if she had chosen to attend one. </p>
<p>Somewhere along the line she visited her bf and figured out that she doesn't like Boston. So she will be in NY in the fall. I am glad that she made that choice, and also glad that throughout the college admission process, she knew that her choices would include the option of attending college closer to her boyfriend. It is just something she could take comfort in, and it made the whole process a little less stressful. No matter what I thought about her best choices or options, I have never said anything negative about the idea of being near her bf -- in fact, early on she asked me if I thought it was a bad idea to choose a college because it was near her boyfriend. I said, "not if the boyfriend is in Boston" and commented that there were so many good college choices in the Boston area that it would be silly to exclude it from consideration.</p>