Black guy. White fraternity

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
41

<p>No, this is not just a UA thing, but it is somewhat regional. I’ve never heard of major issues in the midwest and I know that when I was in college in the 80s at a big-10, midwestern, state flagship there was an AA in the frat the guy I was dating was a member of.</p>

<p>From everything I’ve read, the problem does seem to lie with the alumni. Alumni fund a large percentage of the house’s expenses and from what I’ve read many houses who have considered accepting an AA student have been threatened with the loss of donations.</p>

<p>What it would be nice to see if the university have the strength to stand up to these alumni and not expect the young adults in the organizations to have that strength. Since the GLOs are recognized university organizations and are located on university property, the university does have the power and the legal obligation to ensure that the constitutional rights of students are protected.</p>

<p>It would go a LONG way to eliminate this issue if the university simply released a statement that said, “The Univesity will not tolerate any organizations that violate the rights of students on campus and ANY organization found to be guilty of discriminating against students in a constitutionally protected class will be investigated and relationships will be terminated if necessary.”</p>

<p>Other schools include statements such as (U Delaware, but I can find others, this was just the first on Google): “Membership in a Registered Student Organization may not be restricted on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, disability, religion, age, veteran status, gender identity or expression, sexual orientation or other charactaristic protected by law, except for any fraternity or sorority whose national organization requires it to be single-sex, and then only when such group demonstrates that it will not discriminate on any other basis.” But UA has the following: “MEMBERSHIP
Membership in registered student organizations shall be open to all students of The University of Alabama, without regard to race, religion, sex, disability, or national origin, except in cases of designated fraternal organizations exempted by federal law from Title IX regulations concerning discrimination on the basis of sex.” Although remarkedly similiar, this is listed as - “GUIDELINES FOR NON-FRATERNAL STUDENT ORGANIZATIONS”</p>

<p>I’ve read over and over the statement that GLOs are private organizations and that the university should have no control over their membership, but that is simply not a legally true statement. GLOs are recognized student organizations that are located on university property and as such the university has an obligation to ensure that the rights of students are protected. </p>

<p>From 2011: "When asked whether it was important for black students to be admitted into traditionally white sororities, UA President Robert Witt said Wednesday that greek organizations should be free to determine who they do or do not accept into their numbers.</p>

<p>‘Approximately 25 percent of our student body participates in the greek system at UA,’ Witt said in an e-mailed statement. ‘[This] includes traditionally African-American, traditionally white and multicultural sororities and fraternities. As independent social organizations, it is appropriate that all our sororities and fraternities – traditionally African-American, traditionally white and multicultural – determine their membership.’" ([The</a> Crimson White | Witt defends traditional greek system](<a href=“YouA moves from Youtube - The Crimson White”>YouA moves from Youtube - The Crimson White))</p>

<p>But as independent social organizations the university would not tolerate such actions from the gaming group, or the ballroom dancers, or the cycling club, or the intramural teams, the GLOs are treated as a special class due to the funding contributed by their members.</p>

<p>Unless the University steps in and accepts responsibility of protecting the rights of students in ALL of its recognized organizations, change will take either a very, very strong willed young adult willing to invest the time and courage to fight the system in a lengthy legal battle while being ostracized and aliented because of the perception that they are damaging the reputation of the school or 20-30 years to pass for the most substantial donors to be from a new generation.</p>

42

<p>Ask yourself if the governor of your state (if you’re not from AL) were to say these words (and <em>mean</em> them, despite a Supreme Court order and National Guard presence on campus to the contrary), what would you think about integrating into another race’s “society”?:<br>
“Segregation now…segregation tomorrow…segregation forever.”<br>
Those words were spoken by then-Gov Wallace in his inaugural speech in 1963, and he later that same year, personally, appeared at UA to protest the admission of 2 black students.
No, this is not a UA issue…but it was Ground Zero.</p>

43

<p>I’m guessing if large numbers of students and parents of students who planned to rush disagreed with the current situation and took a stand by not rushing things might change as well. Is their anyone who feels strongly enough to affect change if they believe it is needed?</p>

44

<p>@ jrcsmom - thank you very much for making the point much better than I had the patience to.</p>

<p>These institutions of higher learning have enjoyed a pass. I would think that segregation of any campus recognised activities would no longer be tolerated from the time they deemed it fit to integrate their sports teams.</p>

45

<p>This isn’t a problem at UA, or “down there”… What a ridiculous thing to say collegedadnh.
For proof, just google image greek composite.</p>

46

<p>Unfortunately it seems like this IS a problem at UA dixiedelight and your inability to parse with context and post a picture of a fraternity at some other university does not change that fact. Too bad because I had been liking UA until this discovery.</p>

47

<p>Since you ‘picked’ UConn to demonstrate that other schools are also not racially integrated:</p>

<p>UConn was one of the earliest campuses to racially integrate a fraternity in 1950:</p>

<p>jimhsmithwritingservices.com/PDFs/Al%20Rogers.pdf</p>

<p>In 2005-2006 UConn had consultants come in and evaluate their Greek environment. Part of the resulting analysis included:</p>

<p>Chapter Management Policy Compliance Plan

  • After the MGC and NPHC Special Forum, the OFSL created the Chapter Management Policy Compliance Plan.
    The purpose of the new compliance plan was to assist in diversifying our fraternity and sorority
    community.
    o Objective: To promote diversity within the Greek community and assist fraternities and sororities
    that fall below the minimum membership requirements in fulfilling the requirements of the
    Chapter Management Policy (CMP).</p>
48

<p>I don’t have an inability to parse with context. The picture was to show you that it is not a problem at UA so much as it is a problem nationally. UA’s tuition is nearly $10,000/yr now. Does UA have a problem with tuition? No it doesn’t, at least not in the context of the rest of the country. You’re naive if you think this doesn’t happen at almost every university in the country. You’re making a brash decision without looking at the big picture. You seem to have an inability to think critically imo.</p>

<p>Btw, almost all of the composites on google are just like that.
The most discriminatory comment made in this thread was made by you.</p>

49

<p>It doesn’t seem like that worked too well if you look at their composite jrcsmom… It looks just about the same as the composites at UA. It’s great that they have that policy for you to read and feel better about the situation though, right? You can’t tell me that the composite of UConn represents the racial diversity of their school.</p>

<p>UA has racially integrated fraternities and sororities also. They have for several years.</p>

50

<p>[Racial</a> Divisions In Sororities and Fraternities](<a href=“http://emilydomrose.xomba.com/racial-divisions-sororities-and-fraternities]Racial”>http://emilydomrose.xomba.com/racial-divisions-sororities-and-fraternities)</p>

<p>Just a little food for thought. I personally have seen kids that are not white harassed by others from their ethnic background for “trying to be white”. That disturbs me greatly! </p>

<p>While thinking about all of this I thought of something else I’ve heard before concerning segregation. Sunday morning. My AA friends attend predominantly black churches. In discussing faith and religion we all believe the same thing but after hanging out with each other on Friday or Saturday we seem to not be sitting by each other in the pews on Sunday morning. I believe personally it is just one of those things that even with no one barring one from entering either place, people go where they are comfortable.</p>

51

<p>Just an anecdote so take it for what it’s worth:</p>

<p>My S is 1/4 Indonesian. His paternal great-grandparents fled Indonesia for political reasons and settled in Europe. My S’s paternal grandmother has dual Dutch/US citizenship - although 100% Indonesian by ethnicity, she always hated her heritage and prefers not to acknowledge it. My S’s father is 50% Indonesian, but was born and raised as a midwesterner. He had never even traveled outside of the US until he reached adulthood. My S is 25% Indonesian ethnically. He has a SLIGHTLY darker complexion and deep brown eyes. He was raised in a small town in the rural midwest. He knows nothing about his ethnic heritage and has no interest in learning. He does not identify with those from Indonesia, but instead those that raise cows and pigs, drive tractors, and listen to country music. He self-identifies on every form as caucasian. He has never sought any benefits for being from a minority because he doesn’t view himself as a minority. If people ask ‘What are you?’ He struggles with how to respond. He generally answers, ‘An American, the same as you.’ If they press for an answer he’ll say something like, ‘I’m part Indian or Malaysian, or Indonesian or something like that’ He’s not trying to hide his ethnicity, he just honestly never remembers what it is because it is not relevant to him. Deep down although I know he self-identifies as caucasian and expects to be treated as such, I know that he could encounter discrimination. That breaks my heart. It’s a reminder that a person’s skin tone doesn’t define who they are. I am aware that self-segregation does occur. My first college roommate was half African-American and half Native American. Right after beginning my freshman year she invited me to a frat party at a traditionally black frat house. Everyone there was friendly and welcoming, but for the majority of the night I was the only caucasion there and didn’t like the awkward feeling of standing out in the crowd. But for some black students that grow up in very white suburban or rural areas or white students that grow up in very ethnic city areas or minorities raised by families from different ethnicities - to them they’re not standing out in the crowd, to them that is their crowd, it’s what they KNOW. To look at someone and assume they belong or don’t belong because of their skin tone is, by definition, racism. A black young woman who wants to pledge a traditionally white sorority or a white young man that wants to pledge a traditionally black fraternity is doing so because that’s where they feel they fit in. Without knowing them, without knowing their history, without knowing who raised them and how they were raised, without knowing their interests there is no way to make the determination that they don’t belong - except based on the tone of their skin. To defend the practice by saying ‘everyone else is doing it too’ is HORRIFIC! There should be a drive in all of us that when we see something we know is wrong, to want to change it. For these young adults, they only know what they’ve been taught, what they are learning from their leaders, from their parents. For the adults involved that KNOW that my anecdote is true not just for my S, but for many, many others that were not raised with a specific racial identity, I don’t see how defending this ‘tradition’ can be defended. The alumni pressuring the students to restrict their memberships, the administrators who prefer to not to take responsibility, the parents who continue to pay the dues and support the status quo and not speak up are all teaching and reinforcing to these young adults that this is the right way to do things. We sent them off to college to learn, is this what we want to teach them?</p>

<p>I can’t imagine if my S was forced into a group with Indonesians or even other south-east Asians and told, ‘this is where YOU belong’. I can’t imaging how awkward he’d feel, how out of place…well actually yes, I can, it would be just as awkward as I felt at the traditionally black frat party because although his skin tone might place him in that group, it is NOT where he belongs.</p>

<p>I hope that my son gets through his life without ever encountering overt racism. So far, he’s been able to avoid it. So, far the people he’s met have been able to accept that he’s simply an American. It would be nice if we could all define each other as such.</p>

52

<p>I have again been reminded that it is better to leave the ignorant to their ignorance. I’ll sum up what I’ve read sans the personal attacks. UA’s greek system is racist. The defense is that racism is everywhere and until racism is wiped from the planet its ok that UA’s greek system is racist. I think I’ll look elsewhere thank-you very much.</p>

53

<p>Please don’t let this detail about the Greek system turn you off from UA. It is such a small part of the big picture and so, so many students are not greek.</p>

54

<p>One small word of advise, please refrain from using the term “down there”. I am sure you would be equally upset if someone had one bad experience or such and characterized the entire region you live with one big sweep of a very broad brush and used the term “up there” to demoralize the region. </p>

<p>As kda said, the greek system is a very small part of the make up of UA. </p>

<p>Sadly, this is not just a problem at UA as I have stated. It happens across the country. Just because one can recognize that it is a much larger issue than just the UA campus does not translate into one agreeing to “the system” nor do I agree with any form of racism. I just realize how certain systems still operate to this day. Do I like it? NO! Do I have to participate? NO! Does my child have to participate? NO!!! Have most of us taught our children to love all? YES! Have I seen racism? Yes. Have my children? Yes. They have seen the pain it causes and we have used that as teaching moments to help them understand how wrong it is to judge someone based solely on their skin tone as well as other factors that some try to judge others by. </p>

<p>Oh well, guess I knew there was a reason why I avoided this whole thread to start with. Guess I should have just stayed off. It is just that I can not help it when people try to stereotype a region or people without actually knowing or visiting it just irks me. Guess I’ll go ride my horse off to bed now and blow out a few candles. Cause ya know down here in Texas we all ride horses, no electricity, and own oil wells.</p>

55

<p>I find it interesting that the UA nondiscrimination policy jrcsmom posted did not include sexual orientation or gender identity as protected classes. As one who remembers the struggle to add gender identity to the nondiscrimination statement and the ongoing struggle for UA employees to get and keep Sponsored Adult Dependent (SAD) benefits, the fact that UA hasn’t fully updated its website to reflect these changes is disturbing.</p>

<p>In terms of diversity in the Greek System, UA is not the only school where this is an issue, but it seems that UA is more likely to be shown as an example of where such issues occur.</p>

<p>I’ve always though the argument that Greek organizations are self segregated because people of different races have different interests to be very obviously false. Considering that a lot of the music coming out of fraternity row is sung by black artists, it reminds me of how Sammy Davis, Jr. and many other artists were only allowed in certain venues if they were preforming simply because of the pigmentation of their skin. It wasn’t right back then and it certainly isn’t right now.</p>

<p>Speaking as a person who has always worked in the pink collar positions, has friends from all walks of life, has had love interests from all races, and who would’ve danced on both Soul Train and American Bandstand, it amazes me that more students and alumni in Greek organizations at UA don’t want to admit a more diverse membership base. After all, family members don’t need to look similar to each other or even share a lot of interests in common to be a happy, successful family.</p>

56

<p>@TxNewCollegeMom:</p>

<p>I suspect that in post #43, collegedadnh was not using the phrase ‘down there’ to characterize the south in general, but was using it geographically to refer to Alabama. When saying that racism is still going on ‘down there’, he may have simply been referring to at Alabama, just as if I was to say ‘I’m going down there to take my S back to school in August’.</p>

<p>But to reiterate what slippy said in post #6:</p>

<p>“The long and short of the matter is that the Greek system at most large Southern universities, including Alabama, is racist. They won’t admit it, except to each other. You’ll get the usual platitudes about there being several ‘diverse’ organizations (the ones that don’t have million dollar houses). I say this as a card-carrying Southern conservative white male who was once a participant in such activities. A lot of dispicable things are done in the name of ‘tradition.’”</p>

<p>The bottom line is yes, it is a somewhat regional issue. In the midwest, at the big-10 schools there was a degree of integration more than 30 years ago. I can’t imagine someone there telling an AA girl that she has no chance at becoming a member of a traditionally white house because it’s simply not true. Does it happen frequently? No, not even now, but it does happen and there are not alumni standing in the way, there aren’t frats refusing to have parties with the house - the AA girls are treated just as any others. Dixiedelight linked to 1 picture from UConn showing a frat with no minority members, but I could in turn link to a picture from UConn showing a sorority that does have an AA member (see their most recent Greek newsletter congratulating their graduating seniors). Are there more GLO pictures with no minorities? Yes. But at schools in other regions, there are not the barriers for inclusion. </p>

<p>I am a firm believer in that you must admit there is a problem before it gets changed. The fact is schools in other regions do not exclude their Greek systems from their discrimination clauses, that schools in other regions are developing strategies for how to increase diversity instead of defending the status quo, that alumni in other regions are not threatening to withdraw donations for altering their ‘traditions’, and that frats in other regions are not avoiding scheduling parties with houses that have an AA member (they’re much more concerned about not pairing with the house with the ‘fat girls’ or the ‘ugly girls’). Defending it by saying, but there are not many AA members in Greek houses anywhere, is simply denial and won’t do anything to change the way things are.</p>

<p>The fact is there are regional differences. No, not everyone in Texas rides horses and owns oil wells, but there are a lot more people in Texas than in Maine that do. Just as there are not many lobster fishermen living in Texas. I live in a SMALL town in the rural midwest. I don’t live on a farm. But my S did work on one last summer and I can stand on my porch and listen to the herd of cows that are just on the other side of the highway. To state, as slippy did, “The long and short of the matter is that the Greek system at most large Southern universities, including Alabama, is racist.” is not to be anti-southern, but simply to identify that this is regional issue that has its origins a couple hundred years ago. The first step to doing ANYTHING to change that fact is to be able to admit that it is a true statement.</p>

57

<p>The article that TxNewCollegeMom and the several greek composites I linked show that it really isn’t that much of a regional problem but a national and systematic problem jrcsmom. How can you look at a composite of a fraternity at PennState that had like 100 white guys only and think that isn’t racist but somehow Alabama’s greek system is. You guys can live in denial and believe what you want to believe. The pictures are worth a thousand words. As for you collegedadnh, I’m not ignorant. You started the personal attacks? The “down there” comment was representative of the deep south, not just Alabama. You seem to be ignorant to the fact that this happens all over the country. I am not trying to justify the racial divide at UA by showing that it happens ALL over the country! I am trying to show that not sending your child to UA because their is a racial divide in greek life is foolish because there is one everywhere. How can you people not see that? You might as well only send your kids to schools without greek scenes if you want to feel better about yourself and protect your child from racism, and the world for that matter. I do wish greek relations everywhere were open to everyone equally, but that is simply not the case at all. You guys have turned this thread into garbage and totally misinterpreted what I was trying to show. . Maybe you should think about things before you say them and not act like a dramatic child collegedadnh? “Alabama should be indicted as an institution”? That’s a really mature and clever thing to say…I would rather people like you not come to UA and spread your smug, elitist, narrow minded thinking. It has been noticeable since your time on this board.</p>

58

<p>The thing I have never understood is why you would want to force the issue to begin with? Would you really want your child in a Fraternity or Sorority where they didn’t feel completely welcome just to prove your position???</p>

59

<p>Also collegedadnh, didn’t you say you went to UMass? They are cited in the article TxNewCollegeMom posted for harassing minority members. Seems a little hypocritical to me. I’m sure while you were a student there, you met the greek system full force with protest right? Haha. Double standard elitism at its finest.</p>

60

<p>I hope collegedadnh lets us know which Universities he finds that are devoid of any kind of racism. Really. As I recall, not too long ago an employee of Georgetown University in charge of processing admissions was practicing racism <em>and</em> sexism against white males. Sexism and racism can be found anywhere. It is disingenuous to claim otherwise.</p>