<p>rorosen,</p>
<p>Granted. However, that would be the same for all applicants. One wouldn't expect the two essays to be of equal quality.</p>
<p>Our public high school seems to need additional leader/captain postitions depending on who the students are who are in need of a title. For example, a sports team did well with one captain forever, but during one or two years the team requires two captains. Then when those kids graduate, we are back to one captain. </p>
<p>I know of a prep school my friend's child attends where the students are to submit their college application essays to their guidance counselors in the spring of their junior year. The counselors then 'correct and rework' the essays over the summer so the kids will have tidy perfect essays for their apps in the fall. Strange but true.</p>
<p>Well, I can write but slow and I would 'freeze' having to perform a critical essay dance on a hardbacked chair with a clock ticking,...</p>
<p>yer personal essay is a whole nother affair,..</p>
<p>On a personal note... I have an extended family member who is a talented writer and if you were to read something that he'd written you'd think that he is a very charismatic and charming man. In person he is the opposite.</p>
<p>All of this sounds analogous to the "grade inflation" of Ivy League Colleges and Prep Schools. My son was a captain of his public school football team for 3 of 4 years, captain of the track team, and captain of the FCA and Oceans Olympiad Bowl team his senior year. Of all the schools my son has applied to, he concluded that the Military Academies demand the most diversification -- and it is demonstrated by objective physical testing, obtaining independent nominations from Reps, Sens, VPres, or Pes, in addition to getting an appointment from the academy after passing physical, medical, SAT and grade, and personal screening; it involves several oral interviews in extremely competitive situations. And, if you are admitted, the pressure has just begun such that "padding" will only hurt you -- 21 credit hours/term in an environment where "C" is a very solid grade, mandatory athletic participation, constant badgering and "pleb" treatment, baptism into the necessities of military life. Both the application process (and the prospect of attending) other schools seemed to him simple compared to what he had to do gain his appointment. </p>
<p>But of all the requirements, any AF, Army or Navy Academy grad will tell you: honor is most important. Let us hope that some ADs at least have good enough sniffers to tell whether a kid is "too" successful or too well-written than seems possible. If they had a DI waiting for them on admission, they most certainly wouldn't be able to con there way too far.</p>
<p>logosprincipal--best to communicate with him in writing then!</p>
<p>rorosen,</p>
<p>I am completely with you. The writing section of the SAT/ACT has little or nothing do with the quality of thought, depth of understanding or writing ability that a college application essay should demonstrate.</p>
<p>Dashing something off quickly might indicate that you could be a good reporter for a daily newspaper, but little else. Just like newspaper writing (who, what, when, why, where), the SAT essay is purely a matter of fitting some words into a format for a score; at least that's how students are prepped to score high on that section.</p>
<p>Many colleges think the whole writing section is a complete joke (Chicago), and I tend to agree.</p>
<p>Sometimes I feel like our generation is tainted and this is just one of the inevitable effects of that.
As a student, I see a lot of shaky resume "building" that involves students putting down random accomplishments. In my school, the most common tactic is to start a club and make yourself the president and all your friends "co-presidents" and then just go on with your lives and forget the club until college admisson time. There are about 50 clubs in my school and I am willing to say that at least 30 of them only exist on paper and never had a club meeting. The advisors doesnt care, they get a nice stipend for "adivsing" us and the less meeting we have, the better. </p>
<p>For our larger clubs, such as the NHS, its really a diverse mix of cheaters, juvenvilles, and resume builders. Do people really care about NHS? No. But it sure sounds good on paper. </p>
<p>At our faculty meeting, one teacher, who is the head of the AVID program at my school, stood up and said, "I can not tell my kids to not cheat and be honest, because if they do, they have no chance at college. I can not ruin a kid's life just for the sake of honesty..."</p>
<p>I agree with rorosen. I consider myself a good writer and do very well in literature classes and other classes that require a lot of writing, but I just have trouble with timed writing--I just can't start it. If I have a 40 minute class to complete a writing assignment, I often spend the first 30 planning and the last 10 writing, leaving me scribbling like a maniac in the last minute of class. I usually do pretty well on these despite my time issues. However, the SAT essay is only 20 minutes long...so I have to force myself to write something down after 10 minutes and only really get going when there are 5 minutes left. </p>
<p>With practice I could probably improve, but I didn't bother. In the end, I got something like an 8 or 9/12 on the essay and 79/80 on the multiple choice. My overall 770 is considered high, but the fact that admissions officers could actually see my essay makes me nervous. How can something we write in 20 (or 5) minutes be so important?</p>
<p>That said, it is nice to know that someone's paying attention to the cheating issue. As for resume padding....I sort of feel that in most cases, hour-padding really won't make a big difference in the eyes of admissions officers unless it's really blown out of proportion, in which case it would be suspicious. I have so many thoughts on this but this post is getting way too long.....</p>
<p>mstee,</p>
<p>It is more pleasant that way! ;)</p>
<p>Seole--same for my son. Got an 8 on the essay, but an 800 on the multiple choice for an overall 760 when he took the SAT 2. Did not see the point of prepping for such an artificial writing task.</p>
<p>I'm glad that the college he was accepted to didn't assume he didn't write his essay, which was beautifully done and all his own. He also got an 800 on the writing portion of the PSAT, a 5 in AP lit, and many accolades from hs and college teachers for his writing.</p>
<p>I do believe the SAT writing section is meaningless. It will help the students who are prepped for an arbitrary form, and hurt the rest.</p>
<p>Admissions committees do pay more attention to sports awards like all-league, all-state and the like - which are harder to concoct.</p>
<p>the GFG--at most high schools the after-school clubs meet at the same time as sports practices. Coaches understand if you need to be late one day a week so you can do a club or perhaps an ensemble rehearsal. My son ran cross country for two years but it wasn't his life. He was active in a number of groups that met at "almost" the same time but didn't want to give up any that he loved. Some conflicts were only once a month. And he couldn't even say he was prez or captain of anything, just multi-interested.</p>
<p>Same for my S. 9 on the essay, overall 770 on the SAT Writing Section.</p>
<p>
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Admissions committees do pay more attention to sports awards like all-league, all-state and the like - which are harder to concoct.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Absolutely. Not only that, but the leadership value of "captain" runs from next to nothing to "meh" on most high school teams. All three of my kids were multi-sport athletes in hs, spanning half a dozen different sports, both genders, several different high schools; two of them were captains. On all teams, their experiences were all pretty similar: adult coaches are the leaders. A few, but very few, hand any significant reigns over to captains. The vast majority throw captains a few bones, such as "leading" warmups and cooldowns, supervising taking down the equipment, etc.--things the athetes don't need "leaders" for after a week of practice. Some sports do require that captains confer with referees during competition, but even then, what you tend to see is the "captain" running back and forth between the coach and the ref like a carrier pidgeon.</p>
<p>Yes, that was what I was saying earlier as well. Two of my D's teams didn't even have designated captains. There are accomplishments that I can think of that my kids had that were not necessarily titles they were given but that demonstrated leadership as well as achievements. And yes, in sports, all state and other awards are distinctions that can mean more than a captain that is elected by peers and who is honored but doesn't have to do much in that capacity.</p>
<p>My comment about requiring an on-site writing sample wasn't so much to gauge the applicant's ability to craft a stellar essay in 20 minutes; it related more to basic spelling and grammar skills that are sadly lacking in the age of spell-checkers. If we can't use the proper form of "their" or "there," what are the chances we can stay competitive in the global economy? To the extent that an application essay is truly the work of the applicant, take as much time as you need. However, we all know that not many essays have escaped being heavily edited by teachers, guidance counselors, parents and college admissions coaches. That's the part that puts the kids with integrity at a distinct disadvantage. Besides, if admissions officers are to be believed, the purpose of the essay is to tell them something about yourself that they can't glean from your application - although, admittedly, it is expected to be well written also - rather than to show off your writing skills. No easy answers, unfortunately.</p>
<p>What you about captaincy may apply if the sport involved really isn't a team effort -- as most sports are. But true team sports -- football, hockey, etc -- are different; the captain, for example, in football calls all defensive plays and a captain is the only person who can interact with refs. Captains organize and lead captain's practices, weightlifting or conditioning sessions, offseason league play, and in many cases, academicially assist fellow struggling players who may be trying to avoid being ineligible to play. I guess some of this will depend on the particular team and even on affluence of the school district, but a team captain in a few true team sports is a big deal, and being elected by peers or coaches clearly demonstrates leadership. Being all conference or even all state may be an accomplishment -- my son was both -- but the captaincy of a team sport in which the p.ayers spend more than 20 hrs a week, even in the off season, is signficant.</p>
<p>I understand completely Duble....but it varies from place to place and team to team. A school with 8 team captains on a team is different. A team with no captains is different. A team where the captain is in name only is different. Captains that do all that you describe is very different as well.</p>
<p>B_B, I know what you mean about clubs that exist for application purposes only. When I was in high school, the administration actively pressured the "top 20" seniors to be in all the clubs they could, so they would have big resumes. </p>
<p>One of the things that I am most proud (and chagrinned) about is that my son has flat out refused to do any activity or participate in any club to just look good on his college apps. When he was a freshman, his school (very small, under 100 per class) announced that they wanted freshmen to do a mandatory 20 hour community service thing, "because that's what colleges want to see". My son refused to just do something for the sake of doing it, and was badgered about it a great deal. He waited until there was an opportunity that made sense <em>for him</em>, and that he was passionate about -- helping other students with tutoring his favorite subject -- and then did that every day. When he was told he should run for student goverment office "because it's expected that you'll have held office", he refused, because the student government didn't <em>do</em> anything, and existed solely for application reasons, as far as we can tell.</p>