Boston Globe: Casualties of High School Grade Inflation

Parent Cafe
61

<p>I disagree. Michigan is going to give the same extra points (I know they did away with points, but it's still the same effect) for a good suburban high school as a good private school. The students with lots of B+'s from the private school is going to be at a real disadvantage compared to a student from the good suburban high school with virtually all A's. There is not enough nuance in the Michigan formula to take this into account. Michigan counts all B's (B- and B+) as 3.0; all A's as 4.0; take your grades in 10th and 11th grade and this is your UM GPA. </p>

<p>I also agree with a post above saying not to feel too sorry for the private school kids - in large part they do more than fine in admissions. But in a narrow set of circumstances, the tough grading standards will absolutely have an impact.</p>

<p>As far as the ranking point - most good suburban high schools don't release class rank either.</p>

62

<p>Jami, I'm interested to know why you feel Yale overlooked the grade issue with your son. Is he an athlete, legacy or prodigy of some sort? I can certainly see how these kids get into a top private and not States because many State schools are simply by the numbers.</p>

63

<p>Well my son's school has very hard grading as they are attending attending the two of the seven prep schools. My older kids classes were very beyond APs level. But I think he stood more out becuase of his belief in expressing his views. Good luck to all the parents especially to jamimom, martie, xiggi, momsdream in educating me. Xiggi thank you educating me about ED. I can say that there is no beteer place other than America for a poor person where people reward the hard work. God Bless America. </p>

<p>My son recently received good news about fin aid from colleges. He will receive full ride in one of the schools he has applied. he is waiting from other schools for their decision but he has started to recive likely letter. Thus, this decision belongs to him only. I am now a mere sepctatre. And you bet I am relieved.</p>

64

<p>At average public high schools, at least the ones near us, there may be high grades, but it is not so easy to get into selective schools, and in fact it is quite rare to get into the most selective. </p>

<p>Yes, there may be high grades, but not much if any test prep. It's just not emphasized. </p>

<p>There is no college counselor but guidance counselors who have hundreds of kids to schedule and write recs for. </p>

<p>As far as the apps, most kids fill them out like they're filling out a job application. They don't realize the importance of the essays and have no idea how competitive admission is. </p>

<p>Some kids visit schools, but most send out apps first. </p>

<h2> When these kids do get in at very selective schools, they have shined on standardized tests, are about as good academically as they can possibly be at their schools, and have been very involved in their school and community and/or have a rare amazing talent or ability. Not so easy.</h2>

<p>Chinaman, congrats to you and your son! Yes, I would be relieved, too!</p>

65

<p>Chinaman, that's wonderful. You and your son's seem to have worked very hard since arriving here and deserve your success.</p>

<p>Cricket, why do we let this go on at public schools? Aren't there at least a few enlightened parents who can step in and offer some counseling?</p>

66

<p>First of all, the article is very deceptive about kids getting into Harvard over Michigan, over UNC over Berkeley. Yes, it does happen, but not that often. I don't know what is on their college list, but I am sure that the bottom quarter of the class without legacy, athletics, URm, etc are not going to Harvard. My friend's daughter who graduated from Choate with a 3.4 did not end up going to any of the schools on the esteemed Choate list. So don't think that these kids are complaining about getting accepted ivy and rejected by state U.</p>

<p>My only post that I ever initiated came from a situation where a young man from my son's school was basically feeling totally depressed and "end of the world" when my son brought him home to me to help him find some colleges. Basically, he is a "lifer" at a prep school who has not done well in the last 4 years. Not terribly either. His parents are terribly stretched financially in sending him to this school so they have not dropped an extra dime into his activities including SAT test prep, tutoring, ECs. They feel that what they are giving him is this stability at this excellent school that has it all. What else could he need? Well, he did not get into his flagship state school. He is interested in theatre (therefore the link to my son) but is in no way prepared to audition as he has never had a private lesson in any of the disciplines and all of his theatre experience is from the school. He is not a go getter, and is really a bit slow in blooming. He applied to a number of schools including a parent's alma mater all early or rolling, and was rejected by every single one of them. And these are not top schools--his SATS though not high are within the midrange and his courses are all high level. The parents cannot for a variety of reasons pay $40K+ for his college, and he is clearly not going to get any merit awards, and they do not qualify for financial aid. The biggest problem that I can see is his grades. He has a 2.5 or less average, if you give the transcript a quick standard academic assignment. Lots and lots of C+s. Without test prep, as bright as he might be, he scored a 1280 on the SAT1 which is not going to bring in recruiters either. This is a casualty of this system. He isn't getting into any Harvard to offset that State U rejection, I guarantee you, and, yes, I am sure the counselors at the school could get him into Hobart or other LAC where they know the system, but he isn't going to get a dime of merit money at such a school. </p>

<p>Kirmum, S has an excellent resume, nearly perfect test scores on the SATs, lots of APS and has worked with some people at the school that really wanted him to come and advocated for him. He has some work in progress that is very interesting as well, but, you know, it was a crap shoot for him. I would not have bet a dime, nor would his counselor at his school. Also his grades would not be so low if you averaged his performing arts grades with academics; they would be excellent, but most colleges will not do that. NYU does not. Michigan does not. Most state school do not. Private schools do what they want and not always consistently. He also did very well last year with a tough slate of courses.His transcript also looked a bit better with a single grade representing each course taken, each year. He is all over the chart during the quarters, but manages to get an A or B most of the time for the year end grade, and that is all that shows on his transcript. Doubt if anyplace would have looked at him as he had some D-s for the quarters.</p>

67

<p>Jamimom, I feel for your son's friend. I don't think the prep school guidance office has at all done their part. At DD's small, non-selective private school, the GCs and the college counselor share a suite of offices, and the GCs are well aware of what GPA is required for admission to the flagship state unis, and would be adivsing kids accordingly (ie shape up) Where were the parents? If I were strapped for cash and stretching for prep school, then the kid is getting Cs - I'd want to know why,and what's the problem, then again I had an idea what is required for state unis, even before college confidential. But, and this is my own third tier education coming out, maybe if he isn't a go-getter and is slow to bloom, he is not even ready for college, particularly not a large state university?</p>

68

<p>Kirmum, I'm trying. That's why I read CC.</p>

69

<p>I saw these numbers on other college admission website</p>

<p>"56% of Andover seniors applied early, compared to 48% last year</p>

<p>The top 10 destinations: </p>

<p>School / # applied / # admitted EA or ED </p>

<p>Harvard: 24/7 </p>

<p>Georgetown: 14/7 </p>

<p>Yale: 14/4 </p>

<p>Brown: 11/5 </p>

<p>Princeton: 11/4 </p>

<p>MIT; 9/4 </p>

<p>UPenn: 9/4 </p>

<p>Cornell: 7/5 </p>

<p>Tulane: 6/5 </p>

<p>Stanford: 4/3 </p>

<p>Dartmouth: 6/3 </p>

<p>Columbia: 7/3 </p>

<p>Vanderbilt: 3/3"</p>

70

<p>Cricket,
one of my next tasks is to compose a newsletter for my senior son's junior friends about all of these issues, what they should do next, etc. Good public HS, but no culture for sending kids to elites. The ironic thing is that my some took the Chemistry SAT II with no additional prep last year (honors chemistry only) and pulled a 790. So I know he's getting a good education.</p>

71

<p>I want to make it clear that I am not shedding tears about the situation. This young man will be fine. He has more going for him than 90% of the kids out there. He just found himself in a wrong niche at a crossroads. But it brings out a flaw in this prep school system that parents who are considering this very expensive option need to know can happen. I can just hear the parents now reading this Belmont Hill article who are sure that prep school is the road for ivies, "Who the heck cares if Jr gets turned down by UMich, if he gets into Harvard?". I think this is very deceptive. There are pitfalls to every decision and an expensive prep school is not always the way to go. </p>

<p>Cangel, I am sure the kid will do well in nearly any school except a tough tech school or an large impersonal school where the work load and crowd is geared to kids who are below average such as Southeast State college, or a community college. One thing I can say with total confidence is that the kids who graduate from this highschool are well prepared academically for college and being a boarder,he is likely to adjust to dorm life at college well. He writes well, is well read, has taken solid math and science courses. Although I said to the mother that State U was not a good match for him, I do believe that he would have done fine, most likely well there. He is ready for the next step. At least that was my assessment of him, and I have seen many kids where I feel this is a dubious undertaking. </p>

<p>Most of the public schools do not want any "interference" in this area. They feel perfectly fine, that things are going well. They believe their own PR. In this area, the goal is to get more kids into State U. That is the biggest concern they have. Forget HPY & co, they are lucky to get a handful of kids in the top schools, and they really don't care about it. That's up to the parents. They are worried about State U and getting kids into any school. The big news has been a deal they have struck up with a former's teachers's college in an adjacent state where the kids from this high school get a near automatic in. That this college has a 890-1070 SAT1 average range and accepts just about any warm body that applies does not seem to dampen their sense of accomplishment. There is inexpensive college testing prep here that too few kids use. Too many prefer to go the expensive PR or Kaplan route or forego it for a book but do not have the discipline to go through the motions. If the high
school would link up with those programs and form some sort of liason, they could really provide an inexpensive and effective college prep. And,yes, I have suggested it. I have even offered to set it up free of charge. I know I could do it. I use those resources in conjunction with my private test prep and I know the system as it stands very well. But they prefer to bring in high cost educational consultants every few years to give them advice, and they do what they say. I believe they have struck a 20% off PR deal for letting them use the school facilities. But that is still outrageously out of range for some of the students. Heck if you can afford the $1000 , $200 is not going to be the problem in most cases. I am talking about getting the cost down to $60 including the books. That is all these rec departement courses are charging. But they are not good enough according to the consultants. My own kids have used them up the whazoo, and the senior went from about 170 on the PSAT to nearly perfect on the three corresponding tests when I used the courses as a spring board and supplemented. I don't usually get such drastic results but I know I can do better than they are doing. And it is unfortunately not bragging.</p>

72

<p>Ohio Mom, the newsletter is a good idea!
I think that the kids who are putting in the effort are getting a pretty good education here, too, mostly thanks to the dedicated teachers who will go to great lengths for students who appreciate it.</p>

<p>Jamimom, I agree that there is not always a sense that things could be better. I don't suppose there will ever be a lot of kids going to HPYSM AWS from my kids' school, but I think that there is a lot of merit money missed and that would help a lot of kids. I have to research this Xiggi test prep that I keep hearing about!</p>

73

<p>"Private SChools Chippig in More Aid for Families" Boston Sunday Globe, January 9, 2005.
"According to the National Association of Independent Schools, private school enrollment has increased 19.4 percent in the past 1o years, and one of the major reasons is that private schools are awarding more financial aid every year to both middle class and lower-income families."
At Roxbury Latin, according to the same article, more than a third of students receives further financial assistance. "The average grant this year is $11.811, covering 73.8 percent of tuition." (Roxbury Latin is a day school).</p>

<p>I agree that not all private school students are budding geniuses. Those who are will get into the most selective schools; it is the students who would be easily in the top 25% or even top 10% in public schools but are now getting C+'s and B-'s at schools such as Belmont Hill who will encounter difficulties getting into either highly selective schools or large state universities that are driven by GPAs and SATs. Should we feel sorry for them? We know that they will get in somewhere, thanks partly to proactive GCs and those 1360 SAT scores. But that's not the point. The point is that schools, whether public or private, which have tough grading standards when others don't, undermine their students competitiveness in the admission and financial aid process. </p>

<p>As for international students being shocked at the grading system in this country: one of my classmates came to the US in 10th grade. She wrote back that she had gotten a 65 on her first test (on US history). We, being used to thinking that anything above 10/20 was a great grade, congratulated her. She replied that 65 was failing; we were absolutely shocked. Two years ago, my niece reported getting a 16/20 on the biology part of her baccalaureate. She was literally dancing as she said this, much to the bemusement of my two Ss, used as they were to A's and even A+'s. But she was right to be proud of that score, and obtained her baccalaureate with honors. But then, would Americans like to receive honors called "Assez Bien"? It's the equivalent of cum laude, and much harder to come by; but cum laude sounds so much better than "fairly good."</p>

74

<p>Cricket, there is nothing magical about my views on test preparation. Posters on CC have been very generous in dubbing my views as the "Xiggi method" or other congratulatory terms. When you see a reference made to the "method", it simply means that it involves self-preparation through the interactive use of disclosed tests. I strongly believe that testers get better by going through a process of repetition that slowly evolves as the testers get more proficient. Since we are all individuals, there is no canned approach but there is one commonality: you can only get better by practicing. I am usually dismayed to read that most testers look for a magical Holy Grail for the SAT. They erroneously believe that a list of selected words or a secret page of math formulas will save the day. I like to say that ETS could spot all the words on the SAT and make it so difficult that an 800 would only be attainable by a few candidates. </p>

<p>I do not have great theories to offer ... I just believe that the early recognition of the problems is the key for a great score. While it may change with the new SAT, I believe that most 9th graders could have aced the math section of the test with an adequate investment in time. Raising the verbal scores is harder because reading comprehension varies a lot more among candidates. </p>

<p>The bad news is that the "Xiggi" method requires dedication and work. It lacks that quality that makes infomercials so popular. I could not say. "send me $99.99 and I guarantee you a 1500 on the SAT - in ten minutes a day". That said, I believe that most testers would be better served spending more time practicing diligently than scouting the net for shortcuts. All that is really needed is about 30-50 dollars and 30-50 hours. Amazingly that is both too cheap and too long to be considered great SAT Prep!</p>

75

<p>Marite, Roxbury Latin gives a lot of financial aid? No surprise. </p>

<p>From their own website: "The Roxbury Latin School is one of the few remaining private schools in the country with need-blind admission and need-based financial aid. This allows R.L. to accept and admit the finest students in the Boston area, regardless of economic background."</p>

<p>Any other examples? </p>

<p>Maybe ANOTHER example of self serving prep school PR?</p>

76

<p>Thank you Xiggi. I had understood that your method involved repeated practice but was curious as to the particulars because The Xiggi Method of SAT Prep is probably the only thing on these boards that draws universal accolades! Hadn't really looked for short cuts per se; as close as I've found, familiarity helps. For the verbal, being a life-long reader seems good prep, but there's no short cut for that.</p>

<p>I appreciate your detailing The Xiggi Method. 40,000 CCers can't be wrong.
Can hardly believe you are about eighteen years old. Remarkable to have accumulated so much wisdom already. Good luck with all of your pursuits.</p>

77

<p>Well, Roxbury Latin and BU Academy posted the highest SAT scores of all Boston-area schools (into the 1400s); so I suppose the PR is entirely justified. From the article, at Andover, about 10 percent of students are on full financial aid. The average grant offered is more than $20,000 (the full ride is $31,160), tuition for day students is $24,220. This amounts to $10.2 millions per year. Gianscolere who returned to his public school in Chicago for a variety of reasons, was on full ride at Milton. I also know of students who have received substantial aid at BB&N. </p>

<p>People send their kids to prep schools for a variety of reasons. NE boarding schools, in particular, attract kids from all over the country, some of whom come from districts with very poor schools (CA comes to mind). The funding picture at prep schools probably mirrors that of private colleges: the rich can pay their way, the poor get financial aid, middle class kids are largely on their own. I do not automatically assume that prep schools kids are affluent and can easily snub merit aid. So it has to matter if they attend schools whose idea of an average grade is a C while the rest of the country thinks it should be a B or even a B+.
I have no axe to grind in this matter. Both my kids attended public schools.</p>

78

<p>I agree, Marite. One of the problems I have with these schools is that they do not actively dispel the notion that they are a pipeline into the top schools when they have to know that some families are buying into that. Also with more diversity, comes more famiies that need financial aid and merit aid in college. They also need wider choices including state flagship schools and honors programs that may not have been considerations for kids graduating from prep schools. These schools have been slow in waking up to this reality.</p>

79

<p>In the last few weeks I have spoken to people at top NE prep schools including admissions folks and college counselors. I have to say, I find them very honest about the fact that their schools do not up your child's chances at top schools. In addition they are very forthcoming about the fact that because your child is at the top of current school, they may well be average there. They were so open about this that I was actually surprised when I saw the lists of schools where they sent grads last year. While I haven't seen the college books, my take is that the kids who get into HYP are truly exceptional among exceptional kids, the kids getting into the other ivies would have gotten into HYPS had they stayed home and most all the others get into colleges ranked between 10-20.</p>

80

<p>Well, the Aries method of SAT prep is not nearly as amazing as the Xiggi method, nor as well known, but it focuses on the verbal section. </p>

<p>Simply put, read all the time. I particularly suggest 19th century novels, as they tend to have the vocabulary that shows up on the SATs. If you can finally wade through "Walden" without a dictionary, you're ready for the SATs. Just circle unknown words as you read, write the word and page number down on a pad of paper next to you, and go through a dictionary later. The page ref.s help to put it in context. </p>

<p>After a few years of this, you'll be a faster reader for the practice and have an amazing vocabulary. Years is the key, not weeks or months (which is typical test prep).</p>