<p>Recommended means just that -- optional, not required. Is there risk in not submitted them? Yes, but not enough to get in an argument over.</p>
<p>Check the requirements closely though. Some schools *REQUIRE *SATII's whether you've taken the ACT or the SATI. Read the fine print.</p>
<p>For example Williams: Regular Decision applicants must take either the SAT or the ACT (American College Testing Program exam), plus any two SAT Subject Tests of the applicant's choice. Students taking the ACT must also submit the optional Writing Test. Tests taken through December will be considered by the Committee</p>
<p>It would be in her best interest, if her ECs are just average, to take the SAT II in two areas. She will have to take something similar, in many cases, when she gets to college for placement in classes, so why not take the test when everything is fresh in your mind?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Taking the SAT IIs won't get one single more car into the cemetery at her funeral (or at yours for that matter). Having a life - a real life outside of the college application process - just might.
[/quote]
Thats' a grim comment, and not sure of its point. Spending an extra hour out of one's life to take a test that may open a lot of future doors in one's life is, IMO, WELL worth it and not at all keeping someone from having a life. The SAT IIs are easy, don't require a lot of studying, especially for someone taking the APs, and the OPs dau can take 2 in a day. If she takes them as close to the end of the course as possible, the easier it is, especially if she is taking the APs. I'll bet if you bring home an SAT II subject book in one of the subjects she might take it in, she'll realize its easy and a no brainer. You dau may accidantally close some doors to her future if she stubbornly doesnt take them. Push, bribe, cajole, but get her to take 2 and get them out of the way. Many top schools will require them. Tell her to be proud, but not to be stupid.</p>
<p>My only concern would be your D making decisions about which schools to apply to based on their testing requirements, rather than doing things the other way around (deciding on the schools of interest, and then deciding whether or not to take the SAT IIs). Really, truly, I think your D's decision about taking or not taking SAT IIs only matters if the colleges she's interested in require them. Her "stats" are already strong enough that adding optional additional testing info. is unlikely to make a significant difference in admissions outcomes. If she decides this fall that she does, in fact, want to apply to some schools that require subject tests, she can take most as late as December (or even January in some cases) and still be fine.</p>
<p>FWIW, my own D never took any SAT IIs (for no other reason than dislike of taking standardized tests) and was accepted to (and just graduated from) her first choice school, WUSTL. Unlike many other posters, I would take schools at their word that they do not mean "required" when they state "recommended".</p>
<p>My daughters list is pretty firm. she is only considering some West Coast LAC's, U of Oregon honors college, and possibly Stanford. The only one that requires it is Pomona, but they will take the ACT in lew of SAT and SAT II's. Stanford does recommend them, but not require them. I think she would be able to get into the other schools with her current stats, despite the Average EC's, they are all strong match and safties.</p>
<p>I am of the opinion that there is no need for her to take them. The SAT IIs are NOT going to give the admissions committee any more information than is already available to them in other parts of the application. If anything is going to keep her out of a highly selective college, it is going to be her average ECs, not the fact that she didn't take SAT IIs. She will be submitting her ACT w/ writing and her SAT I test scores. They have enough info to evaluate her fairly. She can self report her AP scores. More test scores will not add any new information. She will be fine. Let it go. It is not worth fighting with her about.</p>
<p>But at a competitive school like Stanford, they may say "recommended", but you better believe 99% of their applicants are doing whatever it takes to get in. With only "average" EC's, she's going to need/want that extra push. Imagine if it came down to accepting a student who fulfilled the recommendations and one who didn't, your daughter would be at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>IMO people are blowing this out of proportion. It's not going to kill anyone to spend a couple hours taking one last standardized test, and it could make a big difference. On the other hand, it could end up being totally irrelevant in the admissions process, but I don't understand why one wouldn't want every possible card in their deck.</p>
<p>I think she should take them. If the results don't turn out too well, then she can submit only the really good ones, but it's an effort that she should exert if she's trying to compete with the best of the best.</p>
<p>I'm fairly confident that every single bright student feels burned out by the end of high school. Heck, do any of us really want to waste our time on the SAT and ACT, let alone the subject tests when we already have IB and AP and who knows how many activities to manage? Of course not. But we do. And that is the key: the most competitive students will surely be going the extra mile to look more appealing to colleges.</p>
<p>And really, she'll probably regret it later if she doesn't. Because if you slack off on one part of the application, you find yourself obsessing over it come March and April, even if it probably didn't make any difference. </p>
<p>She should just take the tests - it's only 3 hours. If they don't help, they don't help, but they won't hurt her chances and she'll at least be able to feel she did her best.</p>
<p>I agree with highopes on this. I don't really understand the argument that the average ECs mean she is doomed and more tests won't help. I think everyone here would agree that SAT IIs play a far greater role in the admissions process than APs. And as it has been mentioned before, stronger test results will be just one more thing to help augment an application that is cumbered by average ECs- likewise, she should make sure essays, recs, etc. are all top notch so she has a strong app in spite of the weaker ECs.</p>
<p>I hope at the very least your D understands that every other applicant will have the "recommended" SAT IIs. For a person in her situation I would say the more stats, the better. I have below average ECs (but of course CC has changed the way I look at things), so I was overjoyed when I found out I got 800s on my chem and math 2 subject tests. It doesn't take away from my weak ECs, but it does add to my academic merit.</p>
<p>I suppose it boils down to how she wants to present herself to prospective colleges/how badly she wants to get in. It's just one more Saturday morning, and it's not like she'll be too busy participating in her multitude of spectacular ECs to take the tests. (deepest apologies, couldn't help it.)</p>
<p>I don't think she should at this point. If she was still a junior, sure. But she really doesn't need the added stress in her senior year.
Her ACT is more than fine to make up for it.
When the schools say they will accept it in place of SAT +II's, they really mean it.</p>
<p>Personal anecdote- I took 3 SAT II's, but chose not to submit them because the ACT was acceptable in lieu of SAT + II's (it was a lot cheaper not to send in the SAT's to all the schools I was applying to when my ACT was fine).
I had a 33 ACT (36 science, 35 math, 33 reading, 29 writing).
I was accepted at Duke, WUSTL, Johns Hopkins, and UNC (out of state).<br>
Those were my 4 'reach' schools.</p>
<p>She ain't too bright if she refuses to take Sat2s. FFS, take sat2 US history which will be an easy 770-800 and math 2. Done. Just two hours of her life. I didnt study for those two specific sats because I hadtaken the BC cqlc and Ap euro. It would be a shame for her to get denied because she couldn't spend half a Saturday extra.</p>
<p>Update: We talked tonight, and she thinks she will take the SAT IIS. Math for sure, and she will decide btwn Spanish, US history or Biology. Thank you for all your input. I think she decided that she could spend a couple more hours to possibly give them one more piece of info. She still thinks the AP tests are more of an indicator of her ability, but she will jump through that particular hoop to help her odds.</p>
<p>I don't know... I think it's a bad sign that you have to be so involved in her academics. Does your daughter show initiative? Does she have leadership skills? Since your daughter is clearly qualified for admission to top schools in terms of academics, whether or not she shows that she has a personality, leadership skills, passion, etc. will be more important. </p>
<p>From what you have posted on here she sounds very apathetic. If that's the case, do not be surprised if she does not get into any highly selective schools i.e. Harvard.</p>
<p>P.S.
Does she go to some elite boarding school where getting into Harvard, etc. is somewhat inevitable for good students?</p>
<p>There was a thread not too long ago on "driven" (self-motivated) and less driven students. That may be part of the issue, and yes, I do think the top schools look for the self starter/driven kids.</p>
<p>IMHO you should start letting your daughter make her own decisions as a young adult. Helicopter parents won't be able to help in college. Honestly, since you say Pomona and Stanford are the ONLY two schools that "recommend" it, I wouldn't bother. There are plenty of other applicants with scads of SAT II scores, many in the 770s or higher range. By adding a few tests to her app she won't have any advantage in the admissions process as long as she isn't coming from a school that is known for easy As, which she obviously isn't judging from the 5s.</p>