<p>Let's see, I've been to regional information sessions in my town for Brown (twice), Columbia, Duke (twice), and Rice, but have never seen the Vanderbilt road show. Locally I know one Brown alumnus and one Rice alumnus, both of whom studied technical subjects. I'm wondering how those colleges fit for applicants looking for colleges at which to study either math or computer science. Most of the young people I know locally aspiring to study those subjects have already received substantial math acceleration through the U of Minnesota's talented youth mathematics program, and some of them are avid computer programming hobbyists. What would a math-liking, computer-curious young person find at each of the colleges asked about here? Besides obvious differences such as Columbia=core and Brown=no core, what characteristics distinguish these colleges? What's your favorite college for those subjects?</p>
<p>I can only pass on a little bit of information about Vanderbilt that I have picked up because my son is a computer science and math major there (also has a third major in the humanities). Computer science is a major within the School of Engineering. In general, engineering majors cannot double major within engineering, but it is quite common for students to pursue a double major, particularly math, in one of the others schools at the university. The required math courses for computer science can be “double counted” towards a math degree. </p>
<p>Students who are accepted into the School of Engineering will find that a good AP record (or a record that includes university courses taken during high school that do not appear on the high school transcript) gets them a good deal of advanced standing and credit. Often the amount of credit is such that a triple major is possible. I was told that a couple of computer science and e.e. majors had added on a third major in music in recent years; my son is trying to do the same with a foreign language. Currently, the Arts and Sciences division of Vanderbilt restricts AP credit to about 18 or 19 credits total. There is no limit that I know of for Engineering (computer science); my son was given 64 credits upon entering, but that is an unusual amount. Since he has enrolled in 2 upper level math courses both semesters freshman year, he will be pretty well through the math course requirements for a math major half-way through sophomore year. Students who enter with considerable math, like those whom you know, tokenadult, will be into graduate courses rather quickly.</p>
<p>There are a couple of different programs that allow students who enter with considerable advanced standing to earn a MS along with, or added on to, the bachelor’s degree within 4 years. Both of those programs require a pretty good gpa to be accepted into the program, and require maintaining the gpa once the graduate courses begin.</p>
<p>In private conversations with a dean and a department head, I was told that research opportunities are available for all students by junior year, for many by sophomore year, and for some advanced students during freshman year. My son started doing research (i.e. learning the ropes) during first semester freshman year; all that was involved was going in to talk to a professor about his work in AI and asking if there was something he could get started on. There may, or may not, be a more formalized approach for those who wish to start research at soph or junior year. I’m not sure, but I do not believe there is anything analogous to MIT’s UROP program. Nonetheless, the department has quite a few active research grants underway and undergraduates are welcome to participate. Recent years have seen a large increase in the number and amount of externally-funded research projects.</p>
<p>The School of Engineering (not just computer science) is actively trying to entice top students who are ineligible for need-based aid by awarding quite lucrative merit scholarships. Students who have very high SAT scores and very good hs records (course selection, rank, gpa) are considered for scholarships by a selection committee that includes faculty from the various engineering disciplines. Vanderbilt is also a full-needs met, and need-blind, institution.</p>
<p>At a meeting between the scholarship award committee, deans and prospective students who had been awarded the large merit scholarships, the dean emphasized that Vanderbilt feels it can offer a slightly different overall package to its engineering students, since students are encouraged, and even required, to take more classes in the humanities and social sciences than many other engineering programs. Hence, they feel they have a bit of competitive advantage in appealing to students with a wide range of interests.</p>
<p>I do not have data on hand about exactly where cs or cs/math majors go after graduating, but some recent grads are in very top graduate departments. Those who are interested in finance careers may be interested in a new program that lets computer science majors add a minor in financial engineering.</p>
<p>I must admit I never saw the Vanderbilt road show, either, so I have no idea what their reps have to say about cs and engineering. If it is like some of the other road shows of multipurpose universities that I have seen, the reps are probably very unknowledgeable about engineering, as opposed to humanities, pre-med, social sciences, etc.</p>
<p>Gourman Report ranking for undergrad math:
Princeton
UC Berkeley
Harvard
MIT
U Chicago
Stanford
NYU
Yale
Wisconsin Madison
Columbia
Michigan Ann Arbor
Brown
Cornell
UCLA
Illinois Urbana Champaign
Caltech
Minnesota
U Penn
Notre Dame
Georgia Tech
U washington
Purdue WL
Rutgers NB
Indiana U Bloomington
U Maryland College Park
Rice
UC San Diego
Northwestern
Texas Austin
carnegie Mellon
Johns Hopkins
Washington U St Louis
Ohio State
SUNY Stony Brook
Penn State
UVA
RPI
Illinois Chicago
U Colorado Boulder
U Kentucky
UNC Chapel Hill
Dartmouth
U Rochester
U Utah
SUNY Buffalo
Tulane
USC
UC Santa Barbara
U Massachusetts AMherst
U Oregon
Duke
Louisiana State Baton Rouge
U Arizona
case Western
Michigan State
U Pittsburgh
Brandeis
US Air Force Academy</p>
<p>LACs for math from Rugg’s:
Bates
Bowdoin
Bucknell
Carleton
Colgate
Dartmouth
Davidson
Dickinson
Harvey Mudd
Holy Cross
Kenyon
Mount Holyoke
Occidental
Pomona
Rice
St Mary’s (MD)
St Olaf
Trinity (CT)
Union
Wabash
Wellesley
Wheaton
Whitman
Willamette</p>
<p>Gourman Report undergrad comp sci ranking:</p>
<p>MIT
Carnegie Mellon
UC Berkeley
Cornell
U Illinios UC
UCLA
Yale
Caltech
U Texas Austin
U Wisconsin Madison
U Maryland CP
Princeton
U Washington
USC
SUNY Stony Brook
Brown
Georgia Tech
U Penn
U Rochester
NYU
U Minnesota
U Utah
Columbia
Ohio State
Rice
Duke
Northwestern
SUNY Buffalo
U Pittsburgh
UC Irvine
UC San Diego
U Mass Amherst
Rutgers NB
Indiana U Bloomington
Penn State UP
UC Santa Barbara
Syracuse
Iowa St
RPI
UVA
U Michigan AA
U Iowa
U Conn
Southern Methodist
US Naval Acad
US Military Acad
U Houston
U Kansas
Washington U St Louis
Mich St
Stevens Inst
Case Western
Texas A&M
U Oklahoma
Kansas State
Vanderbilt
Washington State</p>
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<p>Thanks for mentioning that. That’s what I was guessing about Vanderbilt, and what I’ve heard about the other colleges mentioned in the thread title, but the road show didn’t come here in the fall, so I haven’t heard this directly for Vanderbilt. Your comments about atmosphere and available opportunities were quite helpful.</p>
<p>I’m not studying either subject, but I’ve had mostly positive experiences with the math department at Duke. It usually does very well in the Putnam competition, if that signifies anything.</p>
<p>Yes, Duke is one of the few colleges I have seen mention its Putnam team in its road show.</p>
<p>Rice has a lot going for it, but it all depends upon what you are looking for. Some of the best things about Rice: caring professors, small classes, the college system, warm winters, a student body who bonds so that alumni become very close, a beautiful campus.</p>
<p>I think that it might be easier for a midwesterner to go to Rice than to the east coast. Rice is very welcoming and not preppy or snobby. Students of all types will be happy there. It can accomodate “geeks” who want to program all the time and less academically-intense students who want a social life. The nice thing is that the school is so small that all these types tend to interact and enrich each other.</p>
<p>The college system is nice because students of all ages are housed in the same dorms and because there is a built-in “frat-like” social system. Parties and competitions are all college based.</p>
<p>Rice is very strong in math and CS and has a strong presence in Silicon Valley given the size of the school.</p>
<p>S is at Columbia and, though not majoring in pure math or in cs, has taken many courses in both departments. They are both undergraduate friendly departments, and have given him opportunities to work closely with profs even though his major advisor is in another department. CS and applied math are both in SEAS (School of Engineering and Applied Science), but fully accessible to students in Columbia College. Columbia College students, like my S, take the full core curriculum, while SEAS students take less of it. My S is a quantitative type but chose Columbia partly because of its core, which he has really enjoyed. I feel he’s gotten a great all around education there which he wouldn’t necessarily have gotten at another university.</p>
<p>He has a high school friend who is just graduating Brown in cs and was offered jobs at Google, Apple, etc. He has nothing but great things to say about Brown and his experience there. Brown is excellent in applied math as well, though probably not quite as good as Columbia in pure math. My sense, too, is that at Brown professors reach out to students while at Columbia students pretty much have to reach out to profs. However, as I said, my S has had no trouble getting a generous amount of time from profs in either math or cs when he’s taken the initiative to contact them. </p>
<p>In other words, in terms of those two universities (which are the only ones on the list I know much about), the choice really comes down to which place appeals to a particular student. My S did not apply to Brown, and his friend at Brown did not apply to Columbia. They both seem to have had the experience that suited them best.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments about Rice, Columbia, and Brown. Do choices between Columbia and Brown tend to emphasize the aspect of having or not having a core curriculum? I know students who might really like a core, and others who almost surely wouldn’t.</p>
<p>Brown’s Computer Science Department is known for graphics and animation. If these fields are your interests in Computer Science, I would recommend Brown highly.</p>
<p>Hope this will help. :)</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment about the emphasis at Brown. Does Brown have the expected full line up of studio art classes too?</p>
<p>Since you were discussing core curriculum at Columbia, I should mention the setup at Rice. Rice is not like Columbia in that regard. They have distribution requirements, but these are very loose. For good or bad, I went through Rice engineering and never wrote a research paper or an English essay. This was perfect for me because I hated writing papers and although I loved reading, I hated literary critique. I filled my distribution requirements with foreign language courses, economics courses, and an art history course.</p>
<p>Thanks for mentioning how the curriculum is structured at Rice.</p>