Brown more difficult to get into then Yale?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
41

<p>And ballerina ....</p>

<p>You must not have spent much time in Berkeley. It has many beautiful areas, a breathtaking array of shopping, restaurant and recreational options (again, without even considering easily-accessible San Francisco).</p>

<p>Just compare it with, say, New Haven, by almost any measure - and we're not even talking about the weather.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bestplaces.net/city/Default.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bestplaces.net/city/Default.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Housing prices average $750,000 in Berkeley (pop. 102,000) vs $233,000 in New Haven (pop. 123,000), so I'd say it is plenty "gentified", and the median income is considerably higher.</p>

42

<p>
[quote]
Cantebridgean

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</p>

<p>That's Cantabrigian, I believe...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Cantabrigian%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Cantabrigian&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

43

<p>I have no idea how a thread on "Brown more difficult to get into then Yale?" turned into a tallying of restaurants in New Haven versus Cambridge.</p>

<p>Anyways, New Haven basically serves only Yale University, whereas Cambridge is a college town (five colleges plus more near by).</p>

44

<p>Well, Byerly always enjoys turning threads about other colleges into threads about other colleges versus Harvard. Since college was the peak of his life, it is understandable that Byerly has an unhealthy obsession with it.</p>

45

<p>How old is Byerly, anyways?</p>

46

<p>Sorry the waitlist didn't work out for you, haukim; glad to see you've bonded with your second choice school, but you needn't be bitter.</p>

47

<p>
[quote]
Anyways, New Haven basically serves only Yale University, whereas Cambridge is a college town (five colleges plus more near by).

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<p>Harvard, MIT, Lesley (how many tens of students does that have?), Cambridge College (is that accredited?)...am I missing one?</p>

48

<p>Isn't there some other TTT in New Haven, too? "Southern CT State" or something like that, (12,000) to add to the ambience? And "Albertus Magnus College" (2,200)? and "Gateway Community College" (4,157) ??:</p>

49

<p>New Haven serves many more students than those at Yale. The largest university in central New Haven by enrollment is Southern Connecticut State, not Yale. Located about a mile away on a beautiful campus, it is one of the best public universities in New England. The area around Yale is the downtown part of the city, however, which happens to be the focal point of activity for the whole region. On weekends, tens of thousands of area college students descend on the area around Yale, making it easily one of the best college towns in the country. In particular they are from Southern and Quinnipiac, which have very large enrollments, but also from Albertus Magnus, Gateway, University of New Haven and others in the immediate area; students from schools within a half hour drive like Wesleyan and Fairfield come in good numbers as well. This is a good thing for Yalies, since they can drink and walk a block to their dorms, but a bad thing for the other students, who sometimes drive home drunk and get into accidents (luckily, the larger area schools now provide nonstop bus service every 20 minutes to downtown New Haven, and the buses are packed). </p>

<p>The students plus the fact that New Haven has more 25-34 year olds and yuppies than any other city in the State by a wide margin are the reason why some of the streets get so packed, they literally have to be closed to automobile traffic on weekend nights, and why some of the diners and cafes are open 24/7, or at least to 3 or 4 am. Considering the area around the college, no other Ivy college town compares, not even remotely.</p>

<p>Also, Byerly's figures are invalid because his numbers for New Haven only consider the central area, due to boundaries drawn in the 1700s. In reality, New Haven covers a much larger area than those 18th-century boundaries, with a population of more than 500,000. You have to consider the density; New Haven's downtown has more residents than places like Denver and Seattle and is one of the densest downtown areas in the country. The only valid way to compare cities is to use U.S. Census data on metropolitan areas, or to pick central points and evaluate demographics within a certain radius, e.g., a half hour drive. In either case the results will usually show that New Haven is one of the wealthiest cities in the country, second to San Francisco. This explains why there are dozens of unbelievably expensive restaurants and stores in the downtown area around Yale - they certainly aren't all supported by the Yale students and staff.</p>

50

<p>The TROLLSTER in spreading horse manure again; New Haven is several times larger in area that the much smaller Cambridge, which is <em>far</em> more densely populated. </p>

<p>The smaller Cambridge has 103,000 people, while the far more spread-out New Haven has declined in population to 123,000. Cambridge is several times as densely populated.</p>

<p>"PosterX", however, doesn't tell you this.</p>

<p>Of course half Harvard's acreage is in abutting Boston, a major American city.</p>

<p>"PosterX", however, doesn't tell you this.</p>

<p>New Haven is one of the poorest cities in CT, with a per capita income barely half of that in Cambridge, a far higher crime rate, a far lower average level of education, and a typical house worth far less than half of the typical house in Cambridge.</p>

<p>"PosterX", however, doesn't tell you this.</p>

<p>New Haven has suffered from decades of "white flight", and is now only 43% white, while Cambridge is 73% white.</p>

<p>"PosterX", however, doesn't tell you this.</p>

<p>If you took the geographic area which "PosterX" presumably claims as "greater New Haven" with 500,000 people, you'd have an area equal in size to "greater Boston" with 4,000.000 people!!</p>

<p>"PosterX", however, doesn't tell you this.</p>

<p>Yale is a fine college, but it is an enclave in the middle of a poor, dangerous, declining city, which the University is trying desperately to "restore" by investing part of its endowment - in self defense - in real estate in the surrounding blocks, subsidizing businesses willing to open there.</p>

<p>It has been a very expensive strategy for Yale - but they really had no other choice. Evan Dobelle, as president of Tinity in similarly-depressed and downtrodden Hartford, pioneered this strategy of University-As-Developer to halt the advance of slums at the school's doorstep.</p>

51

<p>Byerly,</p>

<p>You've gotta be kidding. The waitlisted worked out awesome for me. I'm not foolish enough to believe the two fine institutions have any significant measure of difference. I would have loved going to either school, and if you think that because I would have liked to get off both waitlists before I found out about Yale's makes Harvard my "first choice school", I can see how you come to some of your ridiculous ideas. That said, you'll notice I've never reneged on my appreciation of Harvard, and I don't see how pointing out how this isn't another Harvard versus Yale thread ( I believe there is one stickied ) shows my appreciation of Yale.</p>

52

<p>Actually, Yale has made lots of money by investing in real estate in the area. As a result of the massive influx of people and investment capital into New Haven, as I detailed in another recent post, hundreds of private developers (many from NYC and other cities on the Eastern Seaboard) are now scurrying to build condominiums and office buildings in the area, and thousands of luxury apartments and million-dollar condos have recently come on-line. A developer even recently built a massive cinema megaplex in downtown New Haven (2 blocks from Yale), above which sit dozens of apartments going for nearly $2,000 per month. None of them were subsidized by Yale. Your figures are again, incorrect. Prices have quintupled in the downtown area since 2000, much like Williamsburg, Brooklyn.</p>

<p>You simply can not compare central New Haven using its 18th-century boundaries with a small borough/suburb like Cambridge, which is just a boring little extension of Boston. New Haven is the center of a very large metropolitan area and as such must be considered on completely different terms. See below.</p>

<p>Exactly like New York City, of course New Haven is 43% white because immigrants tend to live towards the center of a city, and the demographics you're using for the "City of New Haven" (again, with those artificial boundaries from the 1700s that don't take the whole city into account) only consider the very innermost area. NYC has the exact same demographics - about a third white, a third black, and a third other. As far as income goes, the average income in immediate central New Haven, again, is lower because of the tens of thousands of college students who live there. New Haven is one of the best college towns in the country. In fact, Storrs, CT has the lowest income in the State - it's home to UConn. If you take the wider area into account, like within a short 30 minute drive, again, New Haven is one of the richest cities in the entire country. Even if you just look at the central area, the ten poorest central cities in the country by the percentage of people who actually live in poverty are Brownsville, Laredo, San Bernadino, New Orleans, Providence, RI (home to Brown), Hartford, Newark, Athens, Syracuse, and Miami --- New Haven is not on the list.</p>

<p>Anyhow, this is how the country as a whole is starting to look, and if you want to retreat off into a gated community of all white people, be my guest. But the fact is, most people want to live amidst diversity, which is why urban places like New York City, New Haven and the South End are now considered to be the most exciting places to live, and perhaps why Yale's applications have increased 60% since 1999, the highest in the Ivies, while Princeton's have stagnated going up only 17%. Yale is now the most selective undergraduate program in the United States, a trend reflected in its graduate schools as well. It's not just because Yale has the best academics and best social and cultural life of any Ivy by a long shot - it's also because New Haven is now easily one of the most desirable cities in the country.</p>

<p>Finally, in terms of crime, Harvard's status as a campus in a boring, suburban, early-closing location actually makes it much more dangerous than Yale. According to the Harvard Police: <a href="http://www.stalcommpol.org/data.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stalcommpol.org/data.html&lt;/a>. Any resident of Manhattan will tell you the same thing - the more active and vibrant the streetscape (e.g., the more it looks like the Champs-Elysees, Downtown New Haven, Greenwich Village or Union Square and the more bars, late-night falafel shops and 24/7 diners it has), the safer the area is.</p>

53

<p>I missed a lot on this thread, apparently. </p>

<p>First of all, the city of Berkeley is a dump, and it turns off a lot of students. For UC applicants, a lot of people see Berkeley and then Westwood and make the latter their first choice. </p>

<p>"In either case the results will usually show that New Haven is one of the wealthiest cities in the country, second to San Francisco."
That might just be the most ludicrous thing I have ever seen, posterX. It is clear that you have never visited New Haven, much less at night. It's not much better than Hyde Park in some areas.</p>

<p>I, like crimsonbulldog, am left to conclude that you are in fact an anti-Yale troll. While Byerly remains tolerable at most times, your pathetic, ridiculous arguments. </p>

<p>You can't hate on Palo Alto for being suburban while blathering on about how rich New Haven is 30 minutes out of town. Even if that is true, which it isn't, no Yale student is going to be hanging out in the swanky suburbs.</p>

54

<p>New Haven is a ghetto. To compare it to Palo Alto or Cambridge/Boston does the latter two a great disservice. </p>

<p>posterX, do you suppose you'll be as enthusiastic about Yale if you're rejected?</p>

55

<p>Yes, it's quite absurd we hear how vast New Haven's metropolitan area is while also hearing boasts of diversity- in its city centre alone. Westport and New Canaan are not exactly the barrio now, are they? All the while, of course, PosterX refuses to recognize Cambridge's setting in the altogether far larger Boston metropolitan area, whose primary city is minority-majority (Boston is 40-something % white now), and which boasts a student population within Boston and Cambridge alone that I imagine surpasses all Connecticut's.</p>

<p>At the same time I find Byerly's assertions rather disturbing. Diversity in a city may or may not be caused by white flight. It's ludicrous to boast that Cambridge is over 70% white when diversity is just as often (if not primarily, now) the consequence of immigration that enhances a city's vibrancy and cosmopolitanism. It's also surprising to see this cited as a plus for Cambridge when people on this board so often put down places like V(an)illanova for their preppy white homogeneity. How can universities be valued for their diversity but cities feared for it?</p>

<p>For the record, I believe anyone who has visited both New Haven and *Providence * recently will feel the latter safer and more active, even given the summertime absence of students. Thayer Street is far more interesting than any one part of downtown New Haven, Federal Hill (Providence's Italian neighborhood) is busy enough to have permanently pedestrianized plazas, and the downtown riverwalk is quite scenic. Wherever all the supposed poverty in Providence lies, it is far more removed from students than that in New Haven. I will concede though, that even given the presence of RISD and Johnson and Wales in Providence, New Haven has a more active arts scene and far better dining.</p>

56

<p>I find the dining scene in Providence quite impressive, and eat there every couple of weeks, on Federal Hill or elsewhere.</p>

<p>The racial composition of New Haven has changed, in recent years, not due to immigration so much as "white flight", as the population has declined and the middle class has abandoned the core city, leaving it to the poor and drowntrodden.</p>

<p>"PosterX's" touted "gentrification" - with the "thousands of luxury condos" and "hundreds of new restaurants" and "dozens of upscale martini bars" - is 9 tenths wishful thinking and dubious chamber of commerce hype.</p>

57

<p>I have backed up all of my assertions with facts and figures. Repeating yourself is simply wishful thinking - as a Harvard partisan, perhaps you think you'll deflect a few applicants away from Yale, which has recently surpassed Harvard as the most selective college in the country. I doubt it, given that New Haven now easily surpasses the other Ivy surroundings in terms of restaurants, nightclubs, cafes, bars, stores and other things to do, but due to its geography does not totally suck students away from feeling like they are part of a campus community.</p>

<p>As I said in more detail in posts above this one, New Haven's racial composition has changed in the same way nearby New York's has - due to tens of thousands of foreign-born people moving into the area. In both New York and New Haven, actually, the population of "poor/downtrodden" people has declined much more rapidly than the population of "middle class" people has. These people are simply getting priced out by immigrants, and by the rich. The evidence is pretty clear, with once-empty streets in New Haven and New York's neighborhoods now lined with hundreds of various bodegas, salons, international wire transfer places, Spanish-speaking legal offices, small markets, Chinese take out restaurants, burrito stands and Peruvian chi-cha establishments. As anyone following real estate knows, these cities are also increasingly draws for the very wealthy, who want to be close to major cultural centers and nationally-renowned $50 per plate restaurants such as Ibiza (a place in downtown New Haven, below Cesar Pelli's world headquarters, which the New York Times, Esquire and Wine Spectator have all featured and named the best Spanish restaurant in the country).</p>

<p>I'm sorry that Harvard Square is basically still a boring, commercialized, early-closing shopping mall, with horrible food, and that everyone there wishes to go back to the glory days of the 1970s and early '80s, when it was featured in several movies and was actually an interesting place of its own (and safer) - but there's no need for people to take their frustrations out on everyone else here. </p>

<p>I see even Byerly has finally admitted that the "thousands of luxury condos" in New Haven are "9 tenths wishful thinking" -- which means even the most die-hard Harvard partisan agrees that there are now hundreds!</p>

58

<p>The overwhelming majority of those with a real-world choice pick Harvard over Yale, and always have. </p>

<p>The superiority of the Cambridge/Boston setting is often cited as a key factor for those preferring Harvard.</p>

59

<p>Wishful thinking, not to mention incorrect, given that the overwhelming majority of Yale admits never apply to Harvard, and vice versa.</p>

60

<p>You forget: if they didn't apply, they didn't get in, and didn't have a <em>choice</em>. Many, of course, applied but <em>didn't</em> get in, TROLLSTER!</p>

<p>Harvard and Yale probably have the largest overlap applicant group of any two elites - with the occasional exception of Harvard and Stanford.</p>