Brown or Princeton?

<p>what has most shaped my own development has not been the absolute number of brilliant people i have encountered but the select few who have imparted a lasting worldview, impression, or taste on me.</p>

<p>i think brown is a special place because the environment encourages this kind of sharing at a high level. you choose your own classes so you are there because you (and everyone around you) are passionate about the subject matter. because everyone designs there own course of study you can't help seeking out vicarious experiences. you are encouraged to take upper-level classes outside your area of primary interest (something that is not the case at princeton), so you learn how to get the most out of being a generalist among experts. </p>

<p>while i studied physics and neuroscience, my roommates at brown included a filmmaker that chose classes based on characters in his screenplay, a brilliant engineer who published beautiful literature, and an ethnic indian from zimbabwe who concentrated in russian history. today, when i walk from place to place i see the beauty around me through potential camera angles and lighting opportunities, i recognize overlap in numerical and literary creativity, i appreciate the impact of diaspora on identity. i miss college :)</p>

<p>Well, Alu it's hard to comment, because see, I was the one who blew everyone else away... </p>

<p>;)</p>

<p>I think we may be hung up on the scary part. The mad genius who doesn't wash his hair; the imperious arrogant bastard genius? They don't really exist at Brown. We've got the smiling approachable ones who play Ultimate and sing in the Chattertocks. We've got the premeds majoring in Art History. We've got the NICE ones. The uber-brilliant Brown students are well-balanced. You might actually have to dig a little to find out how truly sharp people are, because they're likely to downplay it.</p>

<p>The thing that appealed to me most about Brown was that, for the first time in my life, I was right in the intellectual middle-- yet I NEVER felt belittled or insecure or 'dumb,' either. I felt huge respect for my peers and was dazzled by many of them, yet it never felt like getting taken down a peg. </p>

<p>Again, the open curriculum has a big effect on the intellectual environment. Every class is filled with people who really want to be there. Nobody is marking time. People are on the same page, they are into what they're doing.</p>

<p>My peers in the English dept were very inspiring; the discussions moved fast and went deep. (If you decide to do an honors concentration you do lots of small honors seminars... you're often with the usual suspects in those seminars; the relationships become strong.) </p>

<p>There were however several tough, intimidating, brilliant profs who taught with the Socratic dialog method; I remember a couple of times having not done the reading and sitting in the hall, listening to class through the open door, rather than embarrass myself vamping in the event I was called on. So I guess that was a bit scary!</p>

<p>But by and large, the very brilliant people at Brown are warm and accessible. They will help you. (If you run across someone you know only by sight in the library, and are struggling with something from your mutual class, if you ask for help they'll drop what they're doing and assist you.) This doesn't happen everywhere!</p>

<p>Anecdotes...? The people who really impressed me? Mostly it wasn't via their astounding intellectual prowess, it was via their love, their genuine joy in what they were doing.</p>

<p>bumping to get more data for Aluson</p>

<p>Thanks:). This is helping....</p>

<p>I think a visit is key. I think your son will definitely have a stronger, "these are my people" reaction at one of these places.<br>
We just finished a round of college visits, and Brown made a very positive impression, based on the student guides and their attitudes.</p>

<p>You said that you are 100% sure that your son will encounter the scary smart people at Princeton and feel very strongly that he needs this. I think you answered your own question.</p>

<p>I understand your motivation in putting this on the Brown board, but you are not likely to get a lot of responses telling you that the people at Brown aren't brilliant. Nor would I say this.</p>

<p>Brown is a wonderful school and unique in many respects and smart and interesting students go there because of this. But Princeton is Princeton. Whether because of prestige or whatever, students of a particular caliber set their sights on it. Before I get flamed--it's not that ALL uber smart students do this, but certainly enough for a school like Princeton to draw together a truly amazing class of students who are academically stellar and interesting in their own right. If it meets your son's needs without question, why second-guess yourself?</p>

<p>By the way--I have no dog in this fight. My brother went to Brown, I went to Penn and my daughter is going to Columbia (having applied ED). Had she not gotten into Columbia, both Brown and Princeton would have been on her list, although she has a soft spot for Brown, being one of those "chill" smart types.</p>

<p>I have no idea what you're saying Numby. It appears that in a bunch of nice rhetoric you're saying that Princeton will draw better students than Brown.</p>

<p>I'm just not sure that we can agree on that one at all. The university's have unique enough identities and experiences to offer that each has no problem attracting the best and the brightest, though the subsets of which may be a bit different.</p>

<p>I am asking this question because of Princeton's social environment as I know it. For the robust social types who love crowds and groups and teams and leadership and standing out, it's unbeatable. For the quiet brilliant ones who are happy with a group of friends and don't care about the visible social mainstream, it's unbeatable. For the kids who like to be in the social mainstream of their school but are edgier, have more words in their brain, less "square-jawed", it may not always be the best fit - although the 4year residential colleges should help. Still great academics. Still the scary smart. But I am doing the mother thing and looking for everything in one place if it exists.</p>

<p>Hi Alumother,</p>

<p>I one of my kids is a music major at Brown, and is involved very deeply in musical theater. I just came back from seeing a production that was very impressive AND so much fun! Most particularly I have been thrilled that my son has been able to take classes at a very intense level. A visiting prof from Germany recently said of son's class (which has a class-size numbered on the fingers of one hand) that he was stunned how far advanced the students at Brown have been. I am also thrilled that there are so many talented and interesting people, very unpretentious and approachable. All in all it has been a very good experience, socially, academically, and musically for this kid!</p>

<p>Hope your son is delighted, no matter what he chooses!</p>

<p>I would strongly recommend Brown for your son. I'm not going to lie, I would recommend it for most. But that's not blind adoration, that's reasoned love for the school. </p>

<p>I first want to address how PingherHues thinks Brown students look out for each other less, and what that has to do with an endowment. Not to flog a dead horse, but Brown has plenty of money. Once you're in the billions you're okay :)</p>

<p>Also, Brown did just change its financial aid policy so the packages could be similar if not the same. </p>

<p>Anyways, here's the real stuff: </p>

<p>Your son has to ask himself what kind of curriculum he wants. Does he want to be very self directed and take lots of courses in many different subjects? Or does he want a more regimented and subject-specific curriculum, that requires intense Junior Papers and Theses? While there are no minors at Brown, many double major. Few double major at Princeton because it would require two theses, although they have many minor and certificate programs. I didn't apply to Princeton because I didn't want the regimented curriculum that comes with the JP and that kind of thesis (I say that kind because many students elect to do a thesis here at Brown. However, I think it is different because it is often a choice and not a requirement). </p>

<p>I'm really kind of laughing by your question about the scary smart people. You know they'd be at Princeton. But Brown? Well the answer is yes, of course! Brown too is one of the most selective schools in the country, only a few percentage points away from Princeton. Don't let the "HYP" acronym fool you, Brown too is a exceptional. So yes, Brown is FILLED with scary smart people. However, they are often laid back about it. Until they raise their hand in class, and you just go "woah!!" I went to Tulane my freshman year and this simply was not the case. Yes, I ran into my share of utterly brilliant people, but I also ran into those who asked the professor where that school of thought was located. When I got to Brown, I had quite a crisis of confidence because I had spent my life so far being hot $hit. Here, everyone is hot $hit. So I know exactly what you are referring too. </p>

<p>A professor at Brown once said to a seminar I was in "If you're truly a Brown student, and I think most students are, are true "Brown students" then you are really interested in and critically engaged in what you are doing and not just going through the motions" (or something like that).
And yeah. Completely. He said this at a non-credit January program I was doing (January@Brown) where people voluntarily take a course, not for credit, but to learn something new and cool. That's Brown. Is that your son?</p>

<p>Princeton is a lot more conservative, a lot more up tight than Brown (I've heard). I've heard it described as very WASPy. I hear the eating clubs can be kind of exclusive. But this is hearsay. </p>

<p>What I do know Brown is very laid back, but there are all kinds of social circles here. I think I would describe a lot of kids here as "cool nerds," they'll have fun and be really interesting cool kids but then ask them about Joyce or how suborbitals work and they won't shut up. </p>

<p>Another thing I love about Brown is the support network. You do have to go look for it, it won't come to you. But if you want it it's there. I'll tell you another story. I work with one dean who's just fantastic. One day I was coming out of health services (now that is less than fantastic) with a broken nose, a scrip for a catscan, and the instructions "NO RUGBY!" I was feeling less than chipper as the dean walked by. I wasn't really feeling like having a conversation, so I looked away. She bends down, gets right up in my face, and says "hello" (in a very friendly way). I was like "Hi dean hansen...." Later I get home and look up my email and there's one from her saying i didn't have "an on top of things" look and she wanted to talk. I mean they wont' let you slip through the cracks if ya try. And she's just amazing in every other regard too. Each advisor only has like 10 students, too. I don't know what the system is at Princeton, but the one at Brown is impressive and it makes a difference. While I'm not gonna like, my advisor kinda can scare the crap out of me, (she's also my coach!) she will really really go to bat for me and help me out when I need. Which is often. </p>

<p>Other good things about Brown. I dunno. I can't say enough. I love the people here. I click with just about everyone. I'm not kidding you'd be hard pressed to find someone I really don't like. I just found I out I may have a really serious health problem, and I just have a laundry list of people I need to tell. And everyone I've told has been infinitely helpful and supportive. I dunno that's Brown to me. It's a caring and fun intellectual community.</p>

<p>I don't have the best memory so I'm having trouble describing the details of the mind-blowing intellectual encounters I've had. Or maybe it's that there are just so many. </p>

<p>Off the top of my head:
Discussing the impact of practicing art or practicing physics on the world -- over pancakes
Hearing a friend read an incredibly beautiful, poetic part of her thesis at an open mic
Hearing a friend launch an exceptionally well phrased and well reasoned argument about our club's status in relation the governing body and the university at large, including underlying social implications, at one of our meetings.
Another over-pancakes discussion about computational and mathematical possibilities of a certain kind of computer program my friend was designing (I can't remember)
Endless conversations about rights and politics in which those you are talking with continually wow you with their eloquence and logic.
A really long conversation with my best friend about the dynamics of economics/healthcare that travelled from the cafeteria to a campus eatery after we got kicked out of the cafeteria cause it closed. </p>

<p>Oh, and here's the best part. Those involved in the above conversations are the same people I watch football with, and go dancing with, and go to museums with, and have fun with in general.</p>

<p>claysoul, I'm still having fun with all my great Brown friends, and I'm coming to my 25th reunion in May. </p>

<p>I don't know how this compares to other schools, but my Brown friendship circles have remained remarkably tight and alive over the years. The best way I can describe it is: we just get off on each other. This is very different from there being an 'alumni network' which is more an employment thing where you could approach a stranger (also very good).</p>

<p>Few of my adult non-Brown friends seem to have as many dynamic, intense, close friendships with people they met in college. My H (UVa) is actually very baffled by it and probably a little jealous. It's a beautiful thing for me.</p>

<p>I'd be curious to hear about other people/other schools.</p>

<p>SBmom when did you go here and where do you live now?</p>

<p>I live in Calif now. I graduated in 1983. Will you be at Campus Dance?</p>

<p>for senior week? no, no place to live. and i don't like working at BUDs (which would give me housing). and i need to be home for a wedding around that time anyways. </p>

<p>where in Cali? I used to live in Berkeley, now I hail from Oregon. </p>

<p>Curious, do you know any St. A alum? I'm pledging this spring.</p>

<p>What's St A?</p>

<p>St. Anthony Hall, it's one of hte 3 co-ed frats, I'm joining this spring. It's uber.</p>

<p>Wow, I just read through this thread and it's undeniably brilliant - made me love Brown even more (if you know me, you'll definitely know how much I love Brown already ;)). Which school did he pick finally?</p>

<p>So by now your son has had to decide on a college right? Which one did he pick?</p>

<p>I stand by what I said earlier. Princeton's alumni network is much tighter, and takes care of its own much better than Brown's. Look, Princeton was founded in 1746, Brown was founded in 1764, Princeton has a smaller undergraduate population but a larger graduate population so the two school's student bodies are roughly equal in size. Yet, Princeton has an endowment more than 4 times larger than Brown's. What that suggests is that the school takes seriously helping its graduates after they leave the campus. It also suggests a more adroit development office, one that hires the best financial managers and appreciates the fact that more money means more and better professors, state of the art facilities, better financial aid, etc. Look, I'm a Brown partisan. For the type of individual who prefers to go their own way in life, there is probably no university better than Brown. However, for the majority of talented students who want financial success, and the alumni networking that oftentimes goes with that, in my opinion, Princeton has the edge.</p>