<p>Hello all you lovely Brown people. I have a question for you. My son is choosing between Brown and Princeton. Now that we have recovered from the shock of his acceptances he has given me permission to get your feedback.</p>
<p>We are very familiar with Princeton. I’m an alumna, my daughter is a junior there. We know all the reasons to attend. We visited Brown, and are familiar with the reputation, but that’s it.</p>
<p>Do you all know anyone who turned Princeton down for Brown? If so, why? If you didn’t, but would have, why? And given what I’m going to tell you about my son - would he like Brown?</p>
<p>S is a word person - probably will major in anything from ethnomusicology to political science to cognitive psychology to any neuroscience that doesn’t make him do calculus ever again. Might minor in music, would like to perform in an improv theater group. Was a varsity soccer player in high school, but would only be a club player in college, and might wind up playing intermural volleyball or something instead.</p>
<p>I keep trying to figure out how to place him on the social spectrum for you but it’s hard. He’s politically pragmatic but liberal at heart. Loves to watch sports and reality TV - but also deeply into African-American popular music from the '70s to now. He told me once he was a slacker nerd at school but on the other hand he was an athlete. Not a science nerd, not an art nerd, just the kind of kid who sits in the back of the class and cracks jokes and then the teacher is surprised when she reads his work…</p>
<p>My one pervasive concern is that I am 100% sure that at Princeton my son will encounter the scary smart people. The people who are smarter than he is. The wild-eyed geniuses. I don’t know if Brown has the same percentage of those kinds of students and teachers as Princeton does. And meeting people who are scary smart when you are regular smart is humbling and very valuable in marking out the perimeter of your own intellectual capabilities. Do you all know the kind of person I mean and do you find a lot of them at Brown?</p>
<p>Any help from this group is highly highly appreciated. From everyone, but special credit to anyone who made this kind of choice or knows someone who did.</p>
<p>Alumother....I don't have the help you are seeking but want to send kudos to your son! And to think you were worried a couple years back! He done good! I know you guys know Princeton way better. By the way ,there are uber smart and driven kids at Brown too. Anyway, if you can get him to ADOCH, I think it would be helpful. It sounds like your son has many interests and the beauty at Brown is he can combine many interests and take what he wants. There is good music and theater on campus too. There is a mom on this forum whose son turned down Yale for Brown (not the same school but you get the idea). Your son can't go wrong with either place and it may come down to "gut feel" for him. That's why going to ADOCH would be very helpful so that he can feel it out. It helped my D to decide four years ago. Obviously he has been on Princeton's campus enough to know that vibe.</p>
<p>it sounds like he is a great fit for brown, but obviously princeton is a great place and both schools have diverse social niches. there are certainly a lot of uber-smart students at brown, certainly no less so than i have found at harvard</p>
<p>Sorry about ADOCH. If he can go and do an overnight, that would be very helpful. Both schools are truly wonderful. I think there are differences among them but the area that I don't think is so different is the smartness of the students.</p>
<p>I agree with dcircle that there are plenty of uber-smarties at Brown. The difference between the uber-smart at Brown and at other places:</p>
<p>(1) their freedom to delve into their passions, particularly if they have multiple, divergent passions. Thanks to the open curriculum, Brown students can easily double-major, pursue independent/cross disciplinary study, etc. Anyone who has lots of intellectual loves but no one clear path as yet will be in <em>heaven</em> at Brown because it is truly the exploratorium (to use a Bay area reference) of the Ivy League.</p>
<p>(2) their lack of overt scariness, despite startling intellectual abilities. Brown students are generally chill, cooperative, and sociable. People are, as a rule, disarmingly nice and normal-- you discover their brilliance later, by surprise. I remember at graduation, seeing who'd won the highest academic honors and being VERY surprised by some of the names... certain people who were ultra low key-slash-slackeresque in demeanor, that I would never have guessed were academic superstars, were summa cums...</p>
<p>(3) Overall lack of concern for name-brand aspects of prestige and more affinity for the specific strengths of Brown: the open curriculum, or a specific department, or the very happy social environment, etc.</p>
<p>(4) You get an artsier brand of uber-bright at Brown, and RISD helps that even more. A significant number of my "college friends" are RISD grads whom I met via employment, RISD classes, and off campus housing. RISD and Brown are adjacent and cross-pollinate well. RISD kids are as scary brilliant in creative, right-brain respects as you can possibly imagine.</p>
<p>If he can't go to Adoch, I vote visit on a regular ol' weekend.</p>
<p>Either, or maybe both? Maybe Thurs, Fri, Sat?</p>
<p>He's going to encounter the people/environment/tone either way; attending two or three classes doesn't tell one much. I'd assume with ~32 classes over four years, it's easy to load up on professorial superstars at either school...</p>
<p>I too am facing a very similar decision, like your son's.</p>
<p>I think that visiting will be the most important tool in deciding which school your son feels most comfortable. I think he could be happy and succeed at either, so it really comes down to personal preference.</p>
<p>although princeton may have a few "uber smart" kids I was really underimpressed with the students from my school who got into princeton- very studious - book smart but not interesting people - and very "packaged."
Whereas the very few who were accepted to Brown (less than at Princeton) are interesting and passionate and have a true love of learning.</p>
<p>I'm the mom soozievt mentioned. He did indeed turn down Yale for Brown. He also loved Duke and Stanford, and it was difficult to turn down Duke because like your son, he enjoys watching sports and Duke's bball is not to be found at Yale or Brown (or Princeton). Brown simply offered more freedom of choice, which if you knew my son, you would understand. He pretty much wants to do things his way - I don't mean that in a bad way, just that he likes to pursue his interests and not waste time with things that he doesn't care about (he dropped Calc 3 this semester because it didn't "inspire" him). He isn't the type of kid I could tell to do something "because it looks good." He would give me that look.</p>
<p>My son probably sat in the back of the class, too. I know he truly enjoyed getting the teacher off on tangents and seemed to enjoy classes where the kids and teachers had a good rapport. But he really is passionate about learning, taking classes at local colleges just because - not for credit. Against our advice, he took 6 AP classes senior year and was upset he couldn't fit in AP Euro too, because he thought it would be interesting. Instead, he took a theater class (which he found interesting but difficult). </p>
<p>In any case, my son said I could send you his email in case your son wants to contact him. I will send you a PM. My son is a freshman neuroscience major who should be able to talk a bit about the neuro dept. He took a neuro class and an ethnomusicology class last semester and he has 2 neuro classes this semester.</p>
<p>Although I was a science person, I too, sat in the back cracking jokes and got surprised looks (until my "reputation" was known) in high school. I also was the same kind of slacker nerd who played varsity sports and never conflicted with any group, easily made friends with whoever was around, but was still the smart one who knows how to joke and act like an ass and didn't have to work that hard.</p>
<p>Brown has been fine for me. Of course there are many that work far harder and who are far smarter than I am-- that'd be true at any top school. It doesn't freak me out. I wish I had been challenged earlier in life so that I wouldn't have developed my particular habits, but it is what it is. I'm learning and loving what I'm learning and more importantly, I'm experiencing and growing and loving that, too.</p>
<p>We should all have such tough choices-- if the Open Curriculum and the environment that inspires, as well as the non-competitive nature of Brown students who tend to be collaborators attracts your son, here is where he should be.</p>
<p>I'm tired.... just woke up... have to go in 20mins and i haven't showered... oops.</p>
<p>I am a Brown partisan, but I would probably say go to Princeton. It's a much tighter alumni network, and Princetonians seem to look out for each other far better than Brunionians. It's the difference between being a university-college with a 2.3 Billion dollar endowment(Brown), and one with nearly a 10 Billion dollar endowment(Princeton).</p>
<p>I've found the Brown alumni network absolutely outstanding. (No doubt Princeton's is outstanding as well.) Most of my alumni network experiences were in LA in the entertainment business.</p>
<p>But here is a funny story that's outside that box:</p>
<p>About ten years ago I sold a house. We had done a lot line adjustment with our neighbor and had agreed to record it if either of us sold our home. Long story short, the lender on my neighbor's mortgage freaked out during the escrow because the physical description of their property lines had changed; they refused to approve it, and this hung up the sale of my house. </p>
<p>I discovered the neighbor's lender was the Shawmut Bank. I recognized it as a New England bank and figured, "surely, someone who went to Brown works there." I whipped out my Alumni Directory and looked up all the Banking people in Massachusetts. Bingo: I found a VP at the Shawmut Bank.</p>
<p>I called her up, introduced myself as a fellow alum, and said, "I sure hope you enjoyed your time at Brown." </p>
<p>She replied that she had loved Brown. So I explained my problem and asked if she could walk it through whatever department needed to sign off on the new property description, etc. It was done within 24 hours.</p>
<p>I'm not really sure where the impression that we don't have a tight-knit alumni network comes from.</p>
<p>I'm not an alumni yet, but if I wear my Brown stuff I'm constantly running into someone from Brown and talking about some common experiences and getting a business card passed my way...</p>
<p>Same here. We found out one of our pediatricians went to Brown and one of the neurosurgeons we met went to Brown (his daughter just started there). My son was invited to a reception for Brown alumni last year (he couldn't attend) but there was quite a long list of attendees from this area. I grew up closer to NYC and lots of Brown alumni live there - guess they work in the financial sector.</p>
<p>For whatever reason we aren't too concerned about prestige, or alumni networks etc. Perhaps having grown up in privilege, and watching a sibling struggle for happiness despite the Harvard degree etc., I am firmly of the belief that while an Ivy degree confers opportunity it actually guarantees relatively little in terms of outcomes. And as far as Brown vs. Princeton and the the future chances for career success to me there is no significant difference.</p>
<p>My son wants, and I believe needs for his own personal growth, to bump into as many people who are truly stratospheric in their intelligence as possible. He is a deep diver, and so far nothing in school has caught his attention, except, maybe, writing music to underscore a monologue when he played Hamlet in his senior english class performance of the play scene, and his improv theater class.</p>
<p>Oh, and Chinese history. Why do the Chinese still love Mao when he visibly harmed so many of them, asks S. And marine biology. See? All over the map but when he likes something he really likes it.</p>
<p>So I am trying to ferret out, by asking you here and everyone I know and respect (there is an overlap at least in the virtual world:)) is whether Princeton would offer more of the encounters with true brilliance than Brown. Because socially, Princeton is challenging for the less than gregarious but still socially interested.</p>
<p>How about some stories from you all about moments in Brown classrooms, or writing papers, where you really felt the neurons firing beyond their previous capacity? Insipirational learning moments, from peers and professors, if you will. Or stories about who from your high school went to Princeton and who went to Brown. If you don't mind.</p>