<p>"If you'd like, you can look at the WSJ feeder rankings or the HLS/YLS class representation reports. Sadly, that's about as good of information as one can get without heading to the pre-law office of your school."</p>
<p>yes, lets look at WSJ - the survey that used Facebook to collect data. </p>
<p>" Anyways, I wonder why you focus on my statement "according to top law school placement results" and not the argument overall."</p>
<p>I usually look at where the proof lies, as do most professors here. You can be right or wrong, just prove it. </p>
<p>"And why have you still yet to refute the poster that we are both arguing about:"
that's in my 6:00 PM post. So much for " The pro-Cornell bias is suffocating sometimes."</p>
<p>"I just find it strange that you say nothing to the one that made a false claim in post #12 yet you try to pick apart my claim when YOU ACTUALLY AGREE WITH IT? "
I thought you used shoddy proof and then choice that could confuse those who may not read a post carefully. I dont recall if i ever agreed or disagreed with you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
yes, lets look at WSJ - the survey that used Facebook to collect data.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What else is available? And what was the initial claim in post #12 based on? Nothing. </p>
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[quote]
I usually look at where the proof lies, as do most professors here. You can be right or wrong, just prove it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is no way to prove the statement "Brown and Cornell are equal for pre-law" without getting the data from the pre-law offices at those schools. </p>
<p>However, as I've said, you didn't bother to refute the claim in post #12 until I made a fuss about it, yet you're all over me as soon as I deny the veracity of his claim. ;) There's the bias I'm talking about. If the truth is your ultimate goal, you should be policing blatant statements like that of post #12 and not counting on me to argue against it. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I dont recall if i ever agreed or disagreed with you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You did though. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I'd ASSUME that they're both about even, but I can't prove this
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You're making the same assumption as myself. I argue that they're about even. Post #12 says "Cornell is better than Brown." I tell him that's false, someone asks ME why that's false, putting the burden on my statement of equality but NOT his statement of Cornell being better than Brown. That, IMO, is bias. If you don't get riled up when someone says Cornell is better than Brown but DO when someone says they're equal, you have an obvious bias towards Cornell.</p>
<p>Brown does a better job of placing grads into top grad schools than Cornell. This is true of every top law school list I've ever seen. My guess is part of this is due to 1) Brown's better students, 2) Brown's grade inflation ( a good thing!), 3) Brown students have more unique opportunities to seperate themselves, and 4) more students at Brown want to go to law school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Brown does a better job of placing grads into top grad schools than Cornell. This is true of every top law school list I've ever seen. My guess is part of this is due to 1) Brown's better students, 2) Brown's grade inflation ( a good thing!), 3) Brown students have more unique opportunities to seperate themselves, and 4) more students at Brown want to go to law school.
[/quote]
</p>
<ol>
<li><p>define "better"</p></li>
<li><p>if brown had "better" students, why do they need grade inflation?</p></li>
<li><p>opportunities to "seperate themselves"? from what? </p></li>
<li><p>throw down some statistics please.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>" 4. throw down some statistics please"</p>
<p>Slipper will never give statistics. Even when they're presented against his arguments, he ignores them. I've seen this a few times in the 'colleges search and selection' part of the forum. I find it kind of humorous, actually.</p>
<p>hey wow, i didn't mean to start an argument about this</p>
<p>but the main reason why I am at Brown this year is because it was the best school I got into. My top choice was actually Princeton (legacy), second choice was Yale, and third choice was Cornell. I was rejected from all 3 of them. Since Princeton doesn't have the transfer option and Yale is just impossible, I want to try for Cornell CAS one more time.</p>
<p>I went to a 'feeder' high school, and I have tons of older friends who are and Cornell and Brown. Based on what they tell me, both Brown and Cornell have a great social life and both are great party schools. But academically, I heard Cornell kids are more (for lack of a better word) "serious" about their studies. Brown kids seem a bit more (direct quote from alumnus), "lacking in moral conscience." They have this whole SexPowerGod and a bunch of other school-funded events and the school administrators don't really do anything except get paid by their tuition. From what I've heard (my HS counselor even told me this), Brown is for the smart kids who simply want to "get in...and then party and do nothing for 4 years except enjoy the inflated grading system that all grad schools already know about." Cornell is for the smart kids who "party hard and are still motivated enough to not lose their entire conscience."</p>
<p>I want a school that actually represents the "ivy" image, of classy ambitious kids who work hard on the weekdays and party on the weekends. Brown seems too much of a state-party school to me. If I wanted a 100% party school, I might as well have gone to Penn-State instead and saved the tuition.</p>
<p>but hey, I could be wrong. please keep debating lol.</p>
<p>"I want a school that actually represents the "ivy" image, of classy ambitious kids who work hard on the weekdays and party on the weekends"</p>
<p>haha, that IS what Cornell represents, at least in all of my experiences on campus. </p>
<p>I'd be lying if I hadn't heard the same/similar things about Brown that other people have told you. But, the student body is really diverse, I suggest you explore a bit to find 'your group' on campus.</p>
<p>Interesting post, Brownn2011. You appear to have given a lot of consideration to the differences between Brown and Cornell. </p>
<p>I maintain that you probably shouldn't consider transferring unless you absolutely certain you cannot be happy at your current institution. Brown is a great school, and I have many wonderful, intelligent, genuine, hard-working friends who have gone there. You can excel there.</p>
<p>But like Gomestar, I would be lying if I didn't agree with your basic take on Brown. I do have one slight quibble, however: Cornell is much more similar to a state-school party atmosphere than Brown. Brown students may party more and engage in a lot of drug use, but Cornell offers much more of a classic, Midwestern style Greek system and an off-campus party and bar scene. Cornell is certainly more similar to a Michigan or Penn State than Brown is. But you are right: Cornell students tend to work very hard and are mainly in Ithaca to get an education.</p>
<p>But as I mentioned before, you can have a Brown-style experience (smoke lots of pot and yearn to become an indie-rock promoter in Williamsburg) at Cornell, but you can't necessarily have certain types of Cornell-style experiences at Brown. </p>
<p>Now, I realize I'm engaging in a fair amount of harmless stereotyping here, but consider the following: I just got back from an art opening for a friend of mine who graduated from Cornell. His work is being featured at a Boston restaurant, and it is based off of his time at the Cornell-in-Rome program. It was a really pretentious affair, and we drank expensive wine while discussing the philosophy of language. You can easily imagine Brown students doing the same.</p>
<p>But could you imagine Brown ever boasting about the following?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/June07/bigFish.kr.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/June07/bigFish.kr.html</a></p>
<p>I suspect not. But a lot of Cornell students and alums are damn proud of this record-breaking catch. </p>
<p>And that's the difference between Cornell and Brown.</p>
<p>Brown barely has any core requirements and Cornell has quite a few (for CAS). You can take your classes pass/fail at Brown, but you are limited to only taking a few classes pass/fail at Cornell. I would think that is the biggest difference in terms of academics.</p>
<p>I'll have to search for the lists but at Harvard Law, Yale Law, UVA Law, Wharton, the WSJ study, etc Cornell lags behind brown in placing grads. In fact Brown lags Cornell in every top grad school list I've seen. Brown students have higher SAT scores and Brown is more selective.</p>
<p>From what I've seen, at least with med school admissions, the placements generally follow the quality of the student body.</p>
<p>Princeton/Harvard level schools at 90%+ to med school. Duke/Upenn at 85%. Cornell/Northwestern at high 70's-low 80's. I personally don't think there is anything inherent to a school like a Cornell or a Harvard or a Brown that gives its students an advantage in professional school admissions. The biggest reason for the discrepancy in the percentages, in my opinion, is due to the differences in the quality of the students.</p>
<p>Comparing Brown with Cornell is like comparing apples with oranges. Cornell has so many specialized colleges that it really brings down the admission rates to the top grad schools. For example, you really would expect a student from the engineering, architecture or hotel schools to go to law school. You also wouldn't expect someone in the ILR, hotel, architecture or the engineering schools to go to medical school. Saying that Brown's admissions rate is higher is being disingenuous.</p>
<p>Well, both are great schools. But, just consider this, I believe that Brown is more preferred to Cornell in terms of cross-admits between those schools. In fact, believe it or not, but most cross-admit studies suggest that Brown beats out all ivies except for HYP. The general pecking order seems to be H Y P Brown Columbia Dartmouth Penn Cornell in terms of general preference according to these statistics. In terms of yield, the pecking order would be H Y P Penn Brown/Columbia Dartmouth Cornell</p>
<p>what does cross admits have to do with anything.
why is it so difficult to accepted the fact that Brownn 2011 really likes cornell. (although i think you should go to brown openminded, youll probably find that you like it)</p>
<p>when did the debate become so heated? for the record brown's original post asked for his chances to cornell CAS and IRL. he didnt ask for you to pick a college for him.</p>
<p>^true i think and I speak for myself as well that everyone is soo bored and hot at home. We all can't wait to get back to chilly Ithaca, or maybe it's ur first time, and start classes. My Cornelled mind feels like I failing or something being in B-more surfing CC all day.</p>
<p>Quoting top law school admit data is really a poor choice - MIT lags behind everybody in that regards since MIT has many students who won't go to law school. Wait a minute, cornell has 3-4,000 engineering students as well, plus the several hundred pre-med majors, 3,000 in the college of agricultural sciences (real law school material), several hundred more in art/arch, even more in hotel ... to include these people in the rankings when other schools do NOT have students in many of these majors (or they're a much smaller % of student body) is to just spit in the face of any stats professor.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Posted by sarahhhh</p>
<p>when did the debate become so heated?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I believe things heated up as soon as you asked me if I'd been rejected by Cornell and accused me of an anti-Cornell bias when I hadn't said anything negative about the school. Perhaps one should think before posting as I don't back down from an attack on my credibility so easily. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Posted by slipper1234</p>
<p>In fact Brown lags Cornell in every top grad school list I've seen.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'll go ahead and agree with this, at least with regards to professional schools. Attribute it to what you like (grade inflation, more pre-prof students, whatever) but in every top law school representation I've seen Brown has a higher percentage of students attending than Cornell. As I've said repeatedly, I won't draw the conclusion that Brown is better at placement than Cornell because there are so many variable factors and though this may be one of the only methods of comparison available, it is quite crude. Still, IMO, it serves the purpose of at least refuting the statement that Cornell is better for pre-professional schools. One poster can base his statement regarding Cornell's superiority on thin air and I will argue against it based on representation numbers at HLS, YLS, MLS, etc.</p>
<p>yes i regret asking u that question, i formally apologize. i probably should have aimed it at columbiahopefull (i thought his post was brands) instead who is clearly biased. but brand you have historically made a couple remarks that are bias against cornell. (i believe this was brought up earlier in this post)</p>
<p>theres a big science presence at cornell with explains why there is less cornell grads at law school. why would premeds/most engineers want to go on to law.
i dont feel any need to say anything about brown as that was not asked by the op.</p>
<p>Well, I'm glad you admit that I didn't say anything negative on this thread and that you attacked me without provocation. As for the "historically anti-Cornell" statements, you all must be referring to the Cornell ILR vs. Columbia thread. I stand by everything I said in that thread: there's a difference between comparing two schools and actively attacking a school for no reason. If you don't like the pros and cons I brought up, you should have disproven them there (as gomestar did for some of them) instead of moving on and assuming I don't like Cornell. As I've said, I intend to apply there for law and contemplated applying as a transfer for some time. I have respect for Cornell and those on CC transferring there. I just honestly don't think it's as good as Columbia, and if that is my opinion and I had reasons, so be it.</p>
<p>Re: premeds/engineers, I agree that Cornell has a far more diverse student body than Brown, which is why it's tough to compare. But if someone on here is going to say Cornell is better for pre-law than Brown, they need to back it up or I'm going to contest that claim.</p>
<p>i dont think i "attacked" you. just wondering if you had a personall reason to not like cornell.
i wouldn't be that offended if you asked me if i got regected from brown.</p>