Bryn Mawr vs. Swat?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Bryn Mawr College
1

<p>I know this probably isn’t a super common issue, but I am right now really deciding between Swarthmore and Bryn Mawr. The real difference comes down to the fact that I got 20k a year in scholarship to Bryn Mawr and I’d be full pay at Swarthmore. </p>

<p>My parents are willing to pay roughly 200k for my education. If I went to Swat, that would all be spent in undergrad. If I went to BMC, I’d have 80k left over and potentially parents who like me a lot better. Haha. </p>

<p>My passion is education reform. My ultimate goal is to join Teach for America and then eventually pursue a PhD in Educational Policy. </p>

<p>Swarthmore offers Education Studies as a major and it seems to be a real strength at the school, kind of a niche major. Bryn Mawr, otoh, offers and Education Studies minor only. Both seem to have very good connections with the Penn Graduate School of Education which is appealing to me. Bryn Mawr, though, offers an early acceptance to their Urban Studies masters program whereas Swarthmore does not. If I go to Swarthmore, there would be a large push to go straight into my PhD with no masters in between in order to not spend a whole lot of money since I probably won’t have much from being a teacher. </p>

<p>I know there is a fairly good possibility of me changing my major but I feel like I need to make this decision with the information that I have - I know my passion right now is education reform. </p>

<p>Some other pros and cons about the school are -
Swarthmore pros:

  • Bigger student body
  • Coed student body
  • Major in my field of study
  • More clubs and organizations
  • More all around academic strength in case I change my major
  • More prestige
  • Quirkier students </p>

<p>Swarthmore cons:

  • Expensive
  • Possibly too much academic intensity
  • Possibly a less rah-rah alumni network than Bryn Mawr
  • Fewer PE classes (I know that sounds dumb but it matters somewhat to me)
  • Crappier food
  • Crappier dorms
  • Worse town
  • Misery poker (thats a REAL negative to me)
  • Overly competitive students
  • Inconvenient Tri-Co</p>

<p>Bryn Mawr pros:

  • Cheaper
  • Great alumni network
  • More moderate students in terms of academic intensity
  • Great food
  • Great dorms
  • Cute town
  • Could pay for grad school
  • Penn grad school program
  • Convenient Bi-Co
  • Diversity
  • AWESOME traditions
  • Good professional school prep (idk about Swats really)
  • Great PE classes</p>

<p>Bryn Mawr cons:

  • All girls
  • No major in my program
  • All girls
  • Possibly less intelligent students
  • Apparently lots of people who don’t care about their hygeine
  • Fewer clubs
  • Lack of a heterosexual dating scene </p>

<p>Help me!!!</p>

2

<p>Based upon your list of BMC cons, I think you have already decided how you feel. I’m not sure that I agree with your characterization of the students but that is something that I assume you have developed from careful observation and time spent on campus. In any case, go where you are most likely to be happy - that will increase your chance of success.</p>

3

<p>As a Bryn Mawr student I can only speak on behalf of my experience here, but I would like to address a few of the points you made in hopes of illuminating some misconceptions.</p>

<p>I would say all of the schools in the Quaker Consortium are on par with academic intensity. For example, I know numerous students that say they like to take classes Penn because they find them much easier than Bryn Mawr’s. Haverford also offers several (popular!) majors strictly using Bryn Mawr’s departments (i.e. History of Art, Geology, etc). </p>

<p>I’m taking a Swarthmore course this semester and enjoy the subject matter but have found the discussion to be lacking significantly and the instruction to not be particularly profound or interesting. While I do go to Swarthmore fairly regularly on the weekends to attend shows at the Olde Club, I must admit it is definitely a trek in comparison to Haverford and even Philly. The Swat Van is annoying and inconvenient to say the least.</p>

<p>I think when people assume Bryn Mawr is inferior to the other schools they’re looking strictly at admission rates. This number is really an inaccurate statistic because what you have to take into consideration are those applying-- typically it’s a much more concentrated applicant pool of qualified students rather than a huge mixed bag of scores and GPAs. </p>

<p>I have to laugh at the hygiene thing because there are some VERY questionable individuals at all of the schools-- I mean, this IS liberal arts (kidding, kidding). But honestly, I have yet to sit next to a smelly person. I’m sure they exist, but that’s just a silly generalization. </p>

<p>I’ve found there to be a great network of organizations on campus, but I must stress the importance of utilizing resources to the fullest. Within the Bi-Co there are TONS of opportunities, you just have to take the initiative to participate. Luckily, it’s really easy to become involved (and attain leadership positions)! </p>

<p>I think that also extends to the heterosexual dating scene concept. It’s all about you making it the experience you want it to be. I have many guy friends across the Tri-Co and in no way feel a women’s college is synonymous with a convent. To speak from personal experience, I’m actually seeing someone in Philadelphia that isn’t involved in any way with the consortium.</p>

<p>I hope this was at least mildly helpful. I’d be happy to answer any other questions or concerns you might have via message. In case anyone was curious, I’m a current freshman at Bryn Mawr leaning towards a History major with a minor in Film Studies.</p>

4

<p>Ahem. No place has more intelligent students than Bryn Mawr.</p>

5

<p>

Heh, I’ve heard Swarthmore students say the same thing about Bryn Mawr courses–more particularly, that the homework for the BMC course is always last on their priority list because they can put in minimal effort and still get a high grade. Conclusion? It’s all entirely subjective.</p>

<p>

Everyone says this because it sounds pleasant, but is simply not true. SAT scores of enrolled students are still different. But having “more qualified” students–which is objectively true about Swarthmore–doesn’t necessarily translate to a better academic experience.</p>

<p>The heterosexual dating scene at Bryn Mawr will be fine if you are extroverted and put in the effort. If you’re introverted and not good “making” your own experience, a coed school will obviously make things easier for you.</p>

<p>I apologize for intruding on the “rival” forum, but I do want to correct misconceptions.</p>

6

<p>Keil, I agree with your statement about the “self-selecting applicant pool” being overstated. About 25% of students have SAT scores that are around the national average or below. Swarthmore’s SAT scores are much higher than that. </p>

<p>However, your one statement really concerns me about Swat. When you say that students who take classes at Bryn Mawr put minimal effort into their homework because they know they can still get As, it makes me very worried that Swat students are in fact motivated by grades and not a desire to learn. I equate that with being competitive even though everyone assures me that Swat isn’t competitive. If all people care about is getting the A, then it means there is an academic culture driven by achievement and not a desire to learn.</p>

7

<p>That particular example was literally overheard, so I can’t provide any more context. But I think it reflects more the reality of Swat’s workload–you learn to prioritize your work and NOT read every single word assigned, and the profs don’t expect you to–than a “competitive” culture. Do people care about grades? Of course. It’s difficult to find anyone who doesn’t care about how “well” they do in class–at any school. But if you’re taking 3 Swat courses and an “easier” Bryn Mawr course, perhaps with less reading or an “easy” professor, then of course some students will end up spending less time on that course (especially if the course itself is not more interesting than their other three courses).</p>

<p>Really, don’t obsess over culture too much. Almost any top LAC, certainly both Swarthmore and Bryn Mawr, will be highly collaborative and non-competitive. It’s not a distinguishing factor.</p>

8

<p>Okay I do agree with that. I guess ideally everybody just does there best all the time but it’s not practical and I know I’m guilty of working for grades too. </p>

<p>This college decision is really going to kill me. Gahhh why could I just have not royally screwed up my McCabe interview and just gotten a full ride to Swat. Decision would then be made.</p>

9

<p>^No one can, or should, decide for you how much the money matters. Here are the key turning points as I see them, ponder or ignore as you wish:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Educational Studies. It’s a signature program for Swarthmore, in a critical-mass kind of way that you won’t find at Bryn Mawr or most liberal arts colleges. Every year there are many more special majors than regular majors in small departments like Classics.</p></li>
<li><p>Coed vs. all-women. Some people thrive in one environment or the other, but most people can adapt to either. How important is having the opportunity to develop heterosexual romantic relationships? If it’s important, will you make the effort to get off-campus at Bryn Mawr and make those connections?</p></li>
<li><p>Quality of (everyday) life. This is Swarthmore’s weakest point, IMO–our housing and food options are adequate, but far from stellar. Bryn Mawr employs most of its first-years in Dining Services, which saves a ton on labor costs and allows them to provide noticeably higher-quality food. The town of Bryn Mawr is also slightly more vibrant than Swarthmore.</p></li>
<li><p>Diversity vs. traditions, which is more important to you?</p></li>
<li><p>Consortia - Swarthmore should be considered on only its own merits, Bryn Mawr as having only the resources of Haverford. For anywhere else, the commute is a huge hassle.</p></li>
<li><p>And, of course, price. What will you do with the $80k saved? Would you “miss” that opportunity, if Bryn Mawr hadn’t offered you the merit scholarship?</p></li>
</ul>

<p>And things that really shouldn’t matter because they’re roughly equivalent:

  • qualification/intelligence of overall student body
  • alumni network
  • PE classes (unless there’s something very specific that you would pursue to an extracurricular level at only Bryn Mawr)
  • student body size (when you’re comparing two very small LACs, a few hundred students makes no difference)
  • quirk
  • number of clubs
  • grad/professional school - plans change, scholarships and fellowships come into play, and even at Swat you’ll be ahead of the financial game in comparison to classmates with debt</p>
10

<p>$20k a year is almost half the yearly cost… I can see how this would be a hard decision. You have to look into what Bryn Mawr would offer in terms of your educational goals. Does Bryn Mawr and/or Haverford have classes and a program that you would be happy with? If not, then going to Bryn Mawr means you almost may as well give up on your stated educational goal and focus on something else. You can take Swat classes from Bryn Mawr but I agree that it’s more of a hassle. If you want to work at it, maybe you can make it work. (And btw, the workload at Bryn Mawr is VERY demanding!) Is this Swat program the ONE program that is perfect for you (and can you for sure get into it)? If so, you should go to Swarthmore, because if you don’t, you’ll wind up regretting it. </p>

<p>One other thing to consider: Bryn Mawr will let you design your own “independent major,” and this could utilize all that’s available at Bryn Mawr plus classes from Penn, Haverford, and Swarthmore. So could you design an independent “Education Studies” major at Bryn Mawr that would do the trick?</p>

11

<p>^I can’t speak to the feasibility of constructing an Educational Studies major at Bryn Mawr, but I would like to note that “getting into” the Ed department at Swarthmore is not even a question. The department adores students who come in already passionate about education. Bryn Mawr’s arrangement with Penn for the MA (? I’m not sure what this is), OTOH, might well be selective.</p>

12

<p>^Swat, I found out, offers the same submatriculation program that BMC does. However, I will say I met with Dr. Grossman a few days ago and while he was nice, he certainly seemed uninterested or at least in disbelief about my passion for education. He wouldn’t answer any of my questions about the special major program or projects his students work on or anything and continually told me that I would change my major and need to chill and just worry about joining clubs. That being said I do realize that he has a point about truly enjoying a liberal arts education, but I would not say he was very enthusiastic about my passion.</p>

13

<p>^I don’t know Frank Grossman personally, although I see that he teaches Urban Ed and I have heard my friend complain a little about her prof in that class. Elaine Allard is supposed to be good–I’m thinking about taking Language Minority Education with her next semester, we’ll see–and Lisa Smulyan is wonderful, though I’m not sure when she is due to be finished with being Associate Provost.</p>

14

<p>Just so you know, it’s not a piece of cake to put together an independent major at BMC either-- but plenty of people do it every year. My daughter found that lots of administrators wanted to talk her out of it, too-- “just take a major that’s offered and you can minor in your passion” – bottom line, listen to advice but don’t let your school or anyone else dissuade you from your passion. You really have to stick up for yourself.</p>

15

<p>Unfortunately a lot of BMC students don’t get the independent major they want. The odds of getting an independent major approved are best for established independent majors like dance, creative writing or theater. If you try to propose a novel independent major, there’s a good chance that your proposal will be rejected. </p>

<p>Try to find at least one regular major that you would be happy with in case the independent major doesn’t work out. </p>

<p>For what it’s worth, a friend of mine transferred to Brown in her sophomore year to study education policy. She wasn’t satisfied with the resources available at Bryn Mawr.</p>

16

<p>To say that “a lot of students don’t get the independent majors they want,” does not take into account the individual’s preparation, course availability, or versatility of majors that allow students to pursue their passions within an existing rubric. Political Science and The Growth and Structure of Cities, for example, are flexible and can incorporate (and do encourage)independent study within an existing rubric. Check out Cities:[Bryn</a> Mawr College: Growth and Structure of Cities Program](<a href=“http://www.brynmawr.edu/cities/courses.htm#MajorReqs]Bryn”>http://www.brynmawr.edu/cities/courses.htm#MajorReqs)</p>

<p>Independent majors at Bryn Mawr do happen and vary WIDELY. Some of the current independent majors are Culture, Film and Media, Classic and Ancient Egyptian Languages, Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies and Public Health. Independent majors are as different as the women who are pursuing them. My suggestion to you, Raiderade, is to contact the education faculty and investigate the possibilities for yourself. I believe you mentioned that you would be coming to Open Campus Days, and I hope you will use the time to discuss with deans and faculty the goals of your education. I think you might benefit from speaking with Alison Cook-Sather or Alice Lesnick during, or even before your visit. They are smart, experienced and committed to the field of education. [Bryn</a> Mawr College: Bryn Mawr / Haverford Education Program](<a href=“http://www.brynmawr.edu/education/]Bryn”>Education | Bryn Mawr College)</p>