bs's ssat scores are false

<p>"St. Paul's School's summer academic programs are only open to New Hampshire public school students. Many elite and lesser known private schools have extensive programs to reach out into less privileged communities." </p>

<p>While this certainly is a great program, it in no way exists to "reach out to less privileged communities". It reaches out to bright NH students, whether or not they have financial need. Being from NH does not automatically qualify as "underprivileged". You probably (I hope) did not mean it that way, but it is how it came across.</p>

<p>afan: I used every year that I could obtain from 2002 through 2007. Some schools furnished more years than I could use. A National University peer assessment was equal to that for Liberal Arts Colleges; for example, the colleges and universities with peer assessment scores of 4.6 were Swarthmore, Columbia, Cornell & Johns Hopkins Univ. Only 4 year, US based colleges and universities were used in the ratings. Students that took a year off were not included. Amazingly, very few students matriculated at non-National Universities or Liberal Arts Colleges, except those that went to St. Andrew's or the Univ. of Edinburgh in Scotland (neither of which were included as USNews did not rate them). A 4.0 Masters = a 4.0 National univ. but it made absolutely no ranking difference ( and, believe me, I checked and rechecked). Of the 25 schools rated and ranked, Exeter actually finished at #15 overall, but at #10 when limited to Northeast U.S. Boarding Schools. Exeter did great with the, presumably, top 35% to top 40% of each class, but then fell off dramatically. I cannot explain the fall-off, but Exeter was very cooperative and open. One poster asked if other schools are worth every penny of tuition-- well that depends on the consumer (student and parent). What were you looking for in a private school? Some want safety and order and equistrian competition or sailing skills more than an Ivy League like college placement. I didn't, and cannot, measure those areas of consumer wants, preferences and degrees of satisfaction other than to gauge it by percent of alumni who donate to the school ( but even this is unreliable since I wouldn't know whether a donor was pleased with the school now or then).</p>

<p>interesting methodology. pretty accurate, although i think when people send their kids to these places they usually have only about 1-5 colleges in mind.</p>

<p>And, at a few schools, they can get them. Most interesting class was the 2007 graduating class of the Groton School. Over 10% of the class of 2007 from Groton matriculated at the Univ. of Edinburgh in Scotland-- which I could not rate, but is certainly, along with St. Andrews, an outstanding university. To better understand the college placement success of the top schools, all one has to do is see writing samples from these students. Or witness the work ethic at any of these twelve schools. These are bright, hard working, motivated and responsible students.</p>

<p>I would like to note that my primary concern with this study was the bottom 25% to the bottom 50% of each class. I wanted to know where they went to college. There are many great private schools not listed here: I am just one person with no funding and poor typing skills and did the best that I could. PM me with any specific questions and I will do my best to help.</p>

<p>Question for icy9ff8: do you know why so many U.S. prep grads go to Univ of Edinburgh and St. Andrews but not Oxford, Cambridge and LSE?</p>

<p>I have lists of every student's college placement for each year from each prep school. Getting that info. was the hard part.</p>

<p>ceebrown: If I wanted diversity the local public schools are the worst place to look. I disagree wholeheartedly with your contention that BS are elite playgrounds for the very rich. That's too simplistic and outdated thinking in my opinion I've personally visited sixteen BS this past year, {crazy I know}, and I found them much more diverse than my local options. DyerMaker mentioned Malcolm X Shabazz, which I believe is in Newark NJ, is 98% African American. GlenRidge High School which is only 5 miles from Newark, is 98% white. I find that our public schools are far more segregated than many of us would want to admit.</p>

<p>To stay in NJ: If you look at schools like Lawrenceville and Peddie - they are far more diverse than the respective public schools in their immediate surroundings. If you need to verify this info go the New Jersey Dept of Ed-School Report Card and compare them to the #'s you have for BS's.</p>

<p>the racial aspect is true. the socioeconomic, not so much. just because somebody's black or from montana or whatever doesn't make them destitute. upper middle-class is usually what passes for "poor" at these places.</p>

<p>ceebrown "The truth is, most kids from ghetto schools who have not had intervention by a program early on in their education could not survive at Andover."</p>

<p>That might be true. That's one of the many reasons that they are considered "underprivileged"</p>

<p>Anyone who is interested in this topic should look at the KIPP Schools. Deerfield has accepted 14 of these kids and they are doing very well. </p>

<p>KIPP:</a> Knowledge Is Power Program</p>

<p>Great schools {KIPP} they seem to be working miracles. I'd love to know what the average SSAT score is for these 14 kids. I'm not a betting man but I'm sure we'd be really surprised.</p>

<p>Lexima: I misread your question as I was in a rush to retrieve my runaway retriever. He has me well trained. The reason why American students attend Scottish Universities such as St. Andrews and the Univ. of Edinburgh is twofold. One: These two Scottish schools recruit in the US and accommodate US students. Typically, and maybe even generally, they require a 1300/1600 or greater SAT I score. Two: British universities look down upon American students as being unprepared for university. In England, students complete an extra year of high school before attending university. At the university, the English students study a very specific discipline, having already completed their distribution requirements in high school. Cambridge does not like American students and usually only accepts three per year. Students at Oxbridge and, to a lesser extent, LSE look down upon the Scottish schools. In England, degrees are typically completed in three, not four, years. The American system of education came from Scotland through a Univ. of Edinburgh graduate who headed Princeton University starting in 1768. Oxford only considers American students who graduated in the top two% of their high school class. Oxford accepts about 30 American students a year. England is only a part of Great Britan. Wales, Scotland and England make up Great Britan. Add Northern Ireland to make the United Kingdom.</p>

<p>Icy,</p>

<p>I don't want to make this personal, so I apologize publicly for anything I said which you found offensive. I can also see that I didn't do a very good job of making my point. The point is simply your choice of what to use as the criteria of a "top" boarding school. While I find your statistics interesting, to me, they are not a measure of what the consumer (sticking with your label) can expect to receive in return for his hard earned dollars. Unless the schools shared with you what percentage of each of those groups of students were either "legacies, development cases, recruited athletes etc. etc." You simply don't have enough information to draw the cause and effect relationship that you imply. I'm not saying you're not correct, I'm simply stating that while the information may or may not be accurate, it doesn't necessarily lead you to the conclusion that you have drawn. What you could have is a nice ranking of which schools have done a good job with alumni relationships leading to legacy matriculations in those schools, or which schools have done a good job recruiting wealthy development potential families, or which schools have done the best job recruiting future D1 hockey players. While I recognize your right to draw any conclusion you want, I feel it is misleading. This is not in defense of Taft or any other school. I have often stated on these boards my opinion that choosing an independent school with the intent of gaining admission to an ivy or any other college would be a large gamble at best. I can on the other hand, attest to the "quality" of education and attention that my 3 children received at what you and others might consider "lesser" independent schools. I hope this clarify's my point of view. Again, I respect your opinion and your right to be wrong! Ha ha. Also, while I have no knowledge of why Taft would or wouldn't share their matriculation data, I could offer up another plausible explanation. One in which the school takes the position that, while they claim and indeed do send many students to top Universities and Colleges, this should not be the reason to apply. Perhaps they are trying to recruit the students they feel will provide them with the best community within their own framework.</p>

<p>I would also like to point out that many other boarding schools, including, but not limited to, St. George's, St. Andrew's, The Asheville School and the Cate School are extraordinary schools academically and socially, in my opinion. It is difficult to post my findings without upsetting someone; that is not my intent, I just wanted to determine a non-subjective factor among many relevent subjective factors to use in the selection of an appropriate fit.</p>

<p>4 kids went to harvard from my school the year i was there. all would've been "tagged" in the admissions process. the sheet they gave my parents when they applied doesn't reflect that though.</p>

<p>The only way you can say a school is responsible for excellent college matriculation is to quantify the inputs (new students) and quantify the outputs (graduates) and look at the differential. And, of course, adjust for the fact that some schools can't do much anyway because their inputs are approaching a ceiling (or wall, depending on how you prefer to do your modeling). Taking a stellar crop of students and marveling at how many excellent colleges they entered fails to recognize the significant components that the students brought with them when they enrolled in high school. These factors don't just include the legacy and athlete information. They include innate brilliance and preternatural social maturity and all the other things that Ivies and other top schools value that are part of the starting point for each student as they walk into their new high school. Somehow, you'd have to establish a control group that shows how much comparable students develop just naturally. And then, armed with that impossible-to-develop pool of data, you can begin to compare how well these schools prepare students for the best possible colleges in the U.S.</p>

<p>And even then the analysis would be specious...because I'm not sure we should applaud a school for pushing its students into Ivies (or whatever the most valued schools are) when those students might be better suited by personality or other factors for slightly less stellar schools. And the biggest problem of all is accounting for the fact that Exeter is probably the best in the nation at educating and placing the kinds of students that Exeter admits while Cate is probably the best in the nation at educating and placing the kinds of students that Cate admits. And, regardless of which one is deemed the "best" by my impossible, theoretical study, that school is likely to suck if it were to have the other school's student body enroll the following year.</p>

<p>Basically, if I may sum this up in two words: rankings suck.</p>

<p>Hi, I'm a new member, and a student at one of the top ten schools. I'd like to let everyone know that at my school, my SSAT scores appear on my report card every term. They have hard data on how low SSAT scores can go before someone starts failing.</p>

<p>ceebrown: 11 of 89 Groton graduates matriculated at the Univ. of Edinburgh in Fall,2007. Some are misinterpreting my study results as findings of the "best" boarding schools. That is unfair and incorrect. My findings are limited to elite college placement success among boarding schools. For many families, especially Asian families according to boarding school officers, this is the single most important factor in selecting a boarding school. It is good and bad to post on this website. Good because there are so many critics that fail to fully and fairly read the posts and appreciate the tremendous amount of work and thought that went into the process, and bad for the very same reason. I wish every poster and reader out there in CC land would "raise their hand" who has put themselves on the line publicly, invested several months time for original research and received nothing but grief in return. I criticize Taft for some reasons, not only for failure to disclose information that their consumers and prospective consumers want, but also because they try to get other schools to withhold info. as well. It appears that if some of the posters here were given a million dollar gift, that they would complain that it wasn't two million dollars.</p>

<p>icy9ff8:</p>

<p>The problem I have with your study is that it represents everything that is wrong with this board. You are promoting "go to this school because it will get you into HYP". You are appealing to those who feel rankings or a top ten list is necessary. I understand that the desire for these lists it is inherent in society but it is the wrong way to go about looking at BS. It truly about finding the best fit for the child.</p>