<p>In our continuing search for (hopeful) safeties, can someone compare Boston University and U of Michigan? Academically and socially? Input appreciated. Thanks.</p>
<p>Can’t compare the two but FWIW my niece (affectionately known by me as Ms. Artsypants) is loving life at BU. She’s in an Honor’s brownstone this year (go kid!!) and has really hit her stride academically, socially, and in the community activities she’s involved in. I have been very pleased with BU for this kid. They are doing a great job.</p>
<p>Academically Michigan is superior in all fields.</p>
<p>I am totally not biased.</p>
<p>agree with above. apples and oranges…UMich>BU</p>
<p>Academically, the University of Michigan is one of the top universities in the world, and Boston University isn’t. That may not mean much to the average undergraduate, or even the above-average undergraduate depending on the field. There are many excellent faculty at BU – being in Boston is popular for adults as well as for college students.</p>
<p>BU has a very urban campus – right in the heart of Boston, with a major street splitting the campus in two. Michigan is giant and sprawly and dominates its classic college town. BU is as large as a private university gets, but not as large as Michigan.</p>
<p>When my kids were applying to college, BU’s admissions were very predictable based on GPA and SAT or ACT scores, except in a fairly narrow range, which made it an attractive admissions safety for kids with high stats who wanted a largish urban university. BU also has some nice merit opportunities available for such kids. Both my kids planned to use BU as a safety, but neither ever applied because they were accepted someplace they preferred early (Michigan, in one case).</p>
<p>Michigan’s admission standards for out-of-state students are probably significantly higher than BU’s standards, and maybe for in-state students as well (although the difference will be less noticeable). Michigan is not as predictable as BU, at least for out-of-state applicants, but it is still a heck of a lot more predictable than its academic peers. In my experience, if a kid is really a legitimate candidate for Harvard or Yale, Michigan could effectively be a safety. The dynamics have changed a little, though, since Michigan has abandoned rolling admissions. There will be no advantage in submitting an application in September, but Michigan will doubtless get fewer early applications from students applying SCEA to Yale or Stanford. (They used to be able to apply on a rolling basis to Michigan at the same time they applied SCEA to Yale or Stanford, or ED to Brown, but now that only works for Michigan residents.)</p>
<p>JHS has done a pretty good job. Statistically UofM’s freshman have a higher percentage of total students with GPAs over 3.75 - 62% (and UofM up until this year used unweighted GPAs) to BU’s 23% and the ACT scores were about the same.Really it’s almost impossible to get in with much under a 3.75 unweighted. UofM is alittle tougher to get into as an OSS because it is a public flagship so admits a much higher percentage of Michigan students but again most people don’t say “safety” and UofM in the same breath. In my opinion from a stats point of view BU is a “better” stats safety.</p>
<p>Finally cost, both will run close to $50,000. BU is probabaly a better bet for financial aid also. College board says average non-need based aid of $18,000. Non-need based aid at Michigan outside of a handful of very good merit scholarships will most likely be in the neighborhood of $5000 for great students. UofM might be a statistical safety, but generally not a financial safety. BU, again might be a better financial safety.</p>
<p>UofM is more “well known” globally but it is a huge, college that has had a national and global reputation for the academics as well as the sports for a long, long time and very active alums all over the place. it’s a big campus and there is something for everyone. Football dominates in the fall, but socially there is literally something for everyone and nothing except football dominates and that is a few short months.</p>
<p>BU is fortunate becaue it has the word “Boston” in it’s name. People will always see that and know where the college is whether or not they know anything about the university. Just depends on what’s important to the student. i can’t speak to the social becauses it’s been too long since I’ve known anyone who attended to speak with any relevance. It’s a great school no doubt and it has many cheerleaders on these boards. Probably a more conventional choice as a safety except for the handful of students that have Ivy League stats and big, deep family financial pockets for which Michigan might be a true safety.</p>
<p>One of my kids looked at BU – liked it, but wanted something smaller. Felt he could get just as good an education at our state U. He felt the same way about several other schools that attract Ivy prospects who might consider them “safeties” but were very feasible admissions targets for my kid. </p>
<p>An article on how BU awards scholarships – <a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/education/edlife/finaid-pappano-t.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/education/edlife/finaid-pappano-t.html</a></p>
<p>Agree with others that Michigan has a stronger academic reputation, and if you are in-state with stellar stats, you are darned lucky! One of my kids had Michigan on his list, but dropped it after getting into two of his top three in EA. I was really surprised at how much he liked the place, as he is definitely NOT the big school/football fan type.</p>
<p>I don’t think Michigan is a safety for anyone because of their holistic admissions practices. There was a very high stat kid from D’s school that got waitlisted, i.e. not admitted. There are other examples on CC that did not get admitted. Otherwise, I agree with JHS. Michigan is much more well respected than BU. </p>
<p>You were looking at McGill before, which I think is a very predictable safety. My D used Wisconsin-Madison as a predictable safety and had her acceptance in October. Wisconsin is very similar to Michigan in terms of test score range, but has a lower percentage of students in the top 10% of their class. Wisconsin is also urban and I found Madison to have a lot of similarities to Boston. Ann Arbor has a more suburban feel.</p>
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<p>The only part of your post I disagree with is the bit about ACT scores being “about the same.” Actually, it’s just not that close; Michigan’s entering students are clearly a cut above by any statistical measure:</p>
<p>Average HS GPA of entering freshmen: Michigan 3.8, BU 3.5
Freshmen in top 10% of HS class: Michigan 92%, BU 55%
% of freshmen scoring 700+ SAT CR: Michigan 24%, BU 14%
% of freshmen scoring 600+ SAT CR; Michigan 73%, BU 63%
% of freshman scoring 700+ SAT M: Michigan 47%, BU 23%
% of freshmen scoring 600+ SAT M: Michigan 89%, BU 77%
% of freshmen scoring 30+ ACT: Michigan 46%, BU 27%</p>
<p>Note also that Michigan doesn’t superscore the SAT; their SAT scores would almost certainly be even higher with superscoring.</p>
<p>And Michigan’s enrolled students succeed at a significantly higher rate:</p>
<p>Average freshman retention rate: Michigan 96.0%, BU 91.0%
6-year graduation rate: Michigan 89.0%, BU 81.0%</p>
<p>Once you get down into the low 80s for a 6-year graduation rate, it’s cause for serious concern.</p>
<p>I’m not knocking BU. I urged my own D to consider it as a safety, but she wanted someplace smaller. (I also urged her to consider Michigan where she’s a double legacy; same response). But these schools are not really that similar. Michigan’s undergrad business and engineering schools are both in the top 10 nationally, and in field after field its faculties are rated in the top 10 or top 25 nationally, where BU’s are generally ranked in the #30 to #60 range. Admission standards, especially for OOS, are significantly higher at Michigan. But so, in my estimation, are the academic rewards, especially for talented and self-motivated students who seize the opportunity to take advantage of the academic riches there. They won’t spoon-feed you as the fancy LACs and super-elite private universities will. But there’s plenty at the banquet table for those who truly hunger for it.</p>
<p>McGill and Toronto are both terrific potential safeties – although they try to soak people from the U.S., they are still meaningfully less expensive than full out-of-state freight at a place like Michigan, they have excellent faculties and resources, and their admissions are purely a function of grades and test scores.</p>
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<p>I might be wrong, but I don’t think Michigan’s out-of-state tuition/room/board is that high. I tried to get my Ds interested in applying (I’m a Michigan grad) but neither wanted to leave the east coast for school. IIRC out-of-state tuition and room/board was in the neighborhood of $30K the last time I looked, which was 4 years ago. Younger D applied to BU to the BFA program–she was admitted and also received a small merit scholarship. We didn’t apply for any financial aid; the award was included in her acceptance package. In the end, younger D decided against a BFA program. </p>
<p>From the perspective of geography–metropolitan area vs. large, sprawling campus that dominates the town–the two universities are very different. Also, (and I don’t imagine this has changed since I attended back in prehistoric times) almost everyone (at the undergraduate level) is from Michigan. There’s more geographic diversity at BU.</p>
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<p>[University</a> of Michigan Office of Financial Aid: Cost of Attendance](<a href=“http://www.finaid.umich.edu/financial_aid_basics/cost.asp]University”>http://www.finaid.umich.edu/financial_aid_basics/cost.asp)</p>
<p>COA is 48.3k to 50.8k, depending on if lower or upper division, and kids who take AP credit can become upper division quickly.</p>
<p>I worked with someone last year who got into Cornell Engineering, Harvey Mudd, Tufts Engineering (and a few others with merit $$) and waitlisted at Columbia SEAS, but was denied at McGill. That was a real headscratcher.</p>
<p>I would suspect that BU has a preponderance of students from New England and the Mid-Atlantic, so I 'm not sure I’d say it’s <em>that</em> geographically diverse. :)</p>
<p>Does Wisconsin have tuition exchange with Michigan? Have heard lots of good things about Wisconsin from S’s math/science friends who looked at it for UG.</p>
<p>Michigan 2010 OOS tuition is 36k with room&board at about 10k. On paper not including other extraneous expenses, BU vs Michigan would be 52k vs 46k.</p>
<p>^ Thanks ttparent. I found a similar difference when looking at schools with my D1 last year. Michigan seems to maintain an OOS price point about $6K to $8K below top private schools (for my D the difference between Michigan and the private LAC she ultimately chose was about $8K). For full-pays that can make a difference. For those needing only a small amount of FA it may go at least partway toward making up for the fact that Michigan gives relatively little FA to OOS students. For OOS needing substantial need-based aid, it’s often unaffordable.</p>
<p>UofM is a school that likes early applications. If this is a serious application it’s October 1st, get it done and get it submitted.</p>
<p>Yes, early application is the key…also do a great job on those essays.
They love diversity!!
U of MI is far from a safety. My s is there now as a freshman and is extremely academically challenged. It is also a very large atmosphere…not for the kid that would do better in a more personal/smaller atmosphere.</p>
<p>Thanks all. Looks like my son will be applying to BU, UMich and McGill as safeties/hopeful safeties. McGill ought to be safe as it is not wholistic - pure numbers based and he is significantly above all the cutoffs. May do UMich as early and McGill is sort of rolling, so hopefully will have those two to cushion us… Thanks.</p>