<p>Byerly, that came (this is embarassing) from a Yale adcom. He seemed trustworthy...
But you're clearly Harvard oriented!</p>
<p>I assume Brown's accepted students weekend is just as bad as Bulldog Days. I would reccomend avoiding both and simply going during a regular school day.</p>
<p>I recommend you go to Brown (if you get in), simply because you'll probably enjoy it more. Maybe you should visit both colleges during the spring time. Anyway, it all depends on your own feelings, so asking other people to decide for you isn't helpful at all.</p>
<p>Look at this, and compare the number of crimes per 100,000 of population in New Haven and Cambridge respectively. You can also compare the two cities in other respects, noting that Cambridge is, according to the statistics, a far more upscale citiy with a more highly-educated population, a stronger economy and a higher quality of life. </p>
<p>Then compare New Haven with Providence, a similarly "downmarket" locale, and you will see that the crime rate in Providence is, nevertheless, far lower than in New Haven.</p>
<p>LOL - i've lived in new haven my whole life, as well - practically grew up on chapel street and in the timothy dwight courtyard. i don't know where in new haven you must live to be saying stuff like this, but i'm thinking perhaps in the old train track pits that divide downtown and wooster, near the smoothie and FBI buildings... get a life! new haven rocks.</p>
<p>Byerly, I was simply noting that your username is the name of building housing Harvard's admissions office. There's no reason to be pugnacious. You're probably right. However, I do wonder where "monstermoving.com" gets its statistics, and how up-to-date they are. While Yale adcoms may certainly lie (especially this one), so too may statistics.
Also, it does seem relevant that Yale students probably spend less time off of the very safe campus and in the very crime-ridden city than Harvard students spend in Boston. After all, Cambridge is not really self-contained, and metro Boston isn't the safest place in the world.</p>
<p>Why not just admit that your annoying effort to put down Providence and Cambridge relative to New Haven was simply a lie - whether you knew it or not?</p>
<p>Let this be a lesson learned: don't try to build up Yale by tearing down its "rivals" - in the usual, annoying Yalie fashion - particularly when your bragging is based on factual falsehoods and somebody who knows the truth may call you on it.</p>
<p>Stick to vaguer bragging points, like your snobby claim, relative to Brown, that "you'd find a more serious intellectual environment at Yale."</p>
<p>Equally annoying is your effort to change the focus of the "debate" - once your phony "crime" claim was exposed - by attacking the poster who set you straight. You should say: </p>
<p>"Thank you sir! I erred. The crime rate in New Haven is indeed higher than the crime rate in either Cambridge or Providence, I will never again boast improperly to the contrary, but will do any pro-Yale bragging based on facts that are demonstrably true."</p>
<p>like10thousand you obviously are quite sheltered for a New Haven person. Go out to some of the bad neighborhoods on a nice night in the dangerous areas and wander see what happens. A street does not have to look crappy to be extremely dangerous. Most of New Havens most dangerous places actually look real nice until night comes, or summer.
Sure New Haven is nice and I love it but its not a perfect place like you try to make it seem. There are lots of crimes, lots of gangs but thats usual for a city. Comparing New Haven to a major city is like apples and oranges, you can't. Of course a big city will have much more crime. For New Havens size it sure does seem to have its fair share of drug and gang crimes. (Ex. kid who killed a prostitute over 5 bux then dumped the body at Carol Cut Rate. )</p>
<p>Byerly: Wow - I was open to the idea that Harvard students/supporters wouldn't stoop so low as to throw ridiculous, indelicate insults at others, but now, I'm not - you've proved me wrong. The simple fact that you have consistently put applicants/students from other excellent institutions down because they aren't at Harvard, which in your mind is so far superior that you have to condescend with every post, shows your arrogant, closed-minded attitude.</p>
<p>On these boards, we are dealing with colleges whose differences are infinitesimally small and are largely characterized by intangibles. Numerically, these colleges are so close that measures of "greatness" cannot begin to accurately differentiate one from the next; your attitude seems to convey the idea that Harvard's one-point edge over Yale in this year's US News (mind you, Yale has had the edge in previous years) constitutes a decisive victory of sorts. In nearly every post of yours I have read, you have taken a good-natured, admittedly petty Ivy League rivalry and made it much more. The "usual, annoying Yalie fashion?" I shouldn't be surprised at this statement - you have already shown yourself more than capable of magnifying something tiny (and, in most cases, unfounded) and holding it up as something "demonstrably true." The differences between elite colleges, superficial as they typically are, cannot be used to uphold one college over the others, and comments such as yours cannot be used to support Harvard's "superiority." The fact is, when you make such arrogant comments, you reflect poorly on Harvard and make us annoying Yalies look much better. It may be that your posts are made in jest, but if they are, they are poorly worded and in bad form. </p>
<p>I, too, heard that New Haven's crime rate is lower than Cambridge's, although I cannot point you to the source at the moment. It may very well be that "monstermoving.com" is correct; I don't know. Still, there is no reason to attack fiddlefrog for that statement. At any rate, does it really matter enough to pursue the argument this far? Really, were talking about three of Americas (and the worlds, for that matter) finest institutions, and were judging them based on the faultily-reported crime rates in their surrounding cities? Leave it alone. Each institution has its peculiarities and is judged on a student-by-student basis, not on the strength of its graduation rate, its alumni giving rate, or its citys crime rate, for that matter. In other words, your demonstrable truths are hardly solid; rather, they are flimsy and ridiculous.</p>
<p>Of all the things fiddlefrog should say right now, this </p>
<p>"Thank you sir! I erred. The crime rate in New Haven is indeed higher than the crime rate in either Cambridge or Providence, I will never again boast improperly to the contrary, but will do any pro-Yale bragging based on facts that are demonstrably true." </p>
<p> is certainly not one of them. And, to use your own words, let this be a lesson learned for you: don't call someone snobby when you're worse!</p>
<p>You are free to be as snobby and Yale-centric as you wish, Vivaldi. You are also free to sneer at Harvard, or Princeton or whoever, and declare your hatred for these "rivals", if you feel the need to do so in order to justify your own prejudices.</p>
<p>But just don't tell falsehoods in order to justify your case. All that I did in this thread was to demonstrate - with a supporting link (of which scores exist) that New Haven's crime rate is higher than the crime rate in either Cambridge or Providence. Period. End of story. So the Yale booster's gratuitous claim to the contrary (the matter having been raised by him, not me) has been disproved.</p>
<p>Now this may or may not be an important factor in choosing a school, but twisting or otherwise misstating the truth about crime rates in order to buttress your case for "School X" or "School Y" is not appropriate.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>What evidence do you have of my "Yale-centric" snobbery? In fact, the only two other schools I am considering applying to are Harvard and Princeton; I have made this known on several occasions. Further, all of my "sneers" have been made in jest, as I have noted with most (if not all) of them. Clearly, you didn't bother to read most of my post.</p></li>
<li><p>"All that I did in this thread was to demonstrate - with a supporting link (of which scores exist) that New Haven's crime rate is higher than the crime rate in either Cambridge or Providence. Period. End of story." Interesting take. For one thing, I conceded that you may very well be right (again, read my entire post, please - I thought it out rather than spit out mindless vitriol); for another, you can hardly say that all you did on this thread was post a link and demonstrate something - your attack of other posters for their harmless posts (read those again, too, while you're at it - they're hardly aggressive or "annoying," as you put it) is disgusting, especially your dismissal of the posters as "annoying," "childish," "snobby," etc., simply because their opinions didn't mesh with your own. And as for not being "appropriate," I (1) don't think you can criticize a poster for hearsay (which, after all, the Yale representative's claim would be) and (2) don't think your posts qualify as appropriate either. My problem isn't with your Harvard-centric attitude - in my opinion, it's great to be so enthusiastic about one school (heck, look at me) - it's with your attacks on people on the Yale forum discussing the merits of Yale, using figures which may or may not be valid (depending on the source, and on this board, I'd say a Yale representative would be considered valid...) to support their discussion.</p></li>
<li><p>Please, please don't call me snobby. I am a very humble person who gets offended when people attack others without reason, not a wealthy son of generations of Yalies who posts on this forum to incite a ridiculous online Ivy riot. I am no elitist, no Princeton- or Harvard-hater, and no hypocrite. I'm not going to ask for an apology, and I'm not going to suggest how it should be worded - frankly, I don't see the need for one - but I would ask that whatever Harvard-centrism you may have be confined to humor, not hatred.</p></li>
<li><p>It's my birthday, and I'm now old enough to see an R-rated movie by myself. I'm done with this, and I think the topic is wearing a bit thin.</p></li>
</ol>
<hr>
<p>To the OP: I would have to agree with chasgoose2 that it sounds like you want to go to Brown. Why, then, did you decide to apply early to Yale (if it wasn't really your first choice and if you didn't know too much about the school)? Fear of binding commitment? When your RD letters come in April, don't think of it as turning Yale down (if you decide to). Think of it as accepting Brown (if Brown accepts you) because Brown will make you happier. Don't choose a school based on small numerical differences as reported by U.S. News & World Report. Both schools are amazing and have incredible reputations.</p>
<p>Vivaldi87, Yes, I applied to Yale because it was EA. Financial Aid packages, in general, tend to be better with EA than with ED because you have some leverage. </p>
<p>To all, I love everything I hear about both universities. I was hoping to get some insight on the downsides of the universities. But it turns out with every downside, there is a positive aspect. Brown gives you freedom with the pass/fail system and it's more open academically. Yale, while more traditional, let's you have a shopping period so you wouldn't need pass/fail because you have a better idea of the class. (I heard from an adcom that Brown is doing away with it's shopping periods or cutting it down to 1 week maybe) </p>
<p>I'm getting my stuff together to visit both schools. My biggest concern is, which school would i be missing out on most if I chose the other one. The answer seems to be Yale with it's unique culture and it's unbounded resources. Yet, trivial, arguements like the onces Byerly strikes up in every single post annoy me. People like that argue with such pretention and authority when often their evidence is hearsay, opinion, and assumptions. Debating with your friends is fun sometimes, but I don't want to be constantly attacked in class or in dining halls by people who think their opinions are backed by God. </p>
<p>Does Brown have any sort of major rivalry? I love rivalries. Honestly, it's so fun to hate "the other team" as a unified group. It's my dream to go to harvard grad school, Undergrad Yalies are so hyped in school spirit with hating harvard. it makes me happy. doesn't it make you happy?</p>
<p>My single point in this thread is that posters bragging - for whatever reason - that the crime rate is lower in New Haven than it is in either Cambridge or Providence are not telling the truth. The TRUTH is the exact opposite.</p>
<p>Yasdnil, luckily, Byerly won't be at Yale next September, so you don't have to worry about getting into those kinds of arguments in the dining halls, or anywhere else on campus, for that matter - except the football field. ;) And it's good to hear your reasons for applying to Yale.</p>
<p>Byerly, for one thing, those figures are old (2001) - perhaps the Yale representative's claim was based on newer figures. And perhaps (s)he was saying that Yale students felt safer than Harvard students; I don't know if there is such a survey. Just a thought. And, what's more, if you look at those crime rates, nearly all of Cambridge's are above the national average, so we're arguing over very little. Posters here should know to choose the schools, not the cities, and at any rate, that wasn't the focus of the OP's post. To summarize: no one here lied to the best of their knowledge, no one attacked you (although your reaction to fiddlefrog seemed to suggest otherwise), and you certainly aren't the one to decide who here is right and wrong (especially when you evidently can't do it in a civilized manner).</p>
<p>The crime rate is higher in New Haven than it is in Cambridge and Providence: this year, last year and for many years. </p>
<p>I understand that Yale is very sensitive on this point, and is trying hard - with mixed success - to change New Haven's "image". This is understandable, and very appropriate.</p>
<p>What is NOT appropriate is your continued effort to dodge the truth and try to rationalize it away.</p>
<p>Look - do all the bragging you want, and struggle to discover as many areas as you can where "Yale is better than Harvard" if it is so important to you</p>
<p>But just don't think you can get away with telling lies - big one or little ones - about the crime rate or anything else.</p>
<p>somebody please make Byerly go away :(</p>
<p>agreed. he's annoying. </p>
<p>Byerly, this isn't a policy debate. just drop it and go elsewhere, or if you refuse to leave, at least control yourself. We don't appreciate senseless arguing over here.</p>
<p>Pointing out that a claim about New Haven''s crime rate vis a vis Cambridge and Providence is factually incorrect is not a "policy argument", frecklybeckly ... its just a matter of applied LUX ET VERITAS.</p>
<p>If we can just get agreement on the true facts here, the issue can at last be put to rest, and the bragging and boasting about Yale's alleged superiority can move on other points.</p>
<p>You are annoying.</p>
<p>Pointing out what you consider to be peoples' mistakes is rude and inconsiderate. Go back to Harvard Yard where you belong.</p>
<p>Anyone can make mistakes, but believers in Lux et Veritas should be prepared to admit them. </p>
<p>Stubborn refusal to admit factual error is not an attractive trait for would-be scholars.</p>
<p>Your resentment is misplaced, frecklybeckly.</p>