Bumper Crop Of Students For 2008

Applying to College
21

<p>Rates will continue to decline and the "cream of the crop" will continue to be increasingly concentrated at the top schools.</p>

<p>Nothing unusual about this, given that resources are also becoming increasingly concentrated at the top schools. I believe that Princeton and Yale now top the list with endowments totaling over $2,000,000 PER student (most colleges, even top elites, are still in the range of a few hundred thousand or less). These type of unbelievable resources enable a college experience like never previously seen in terms of the amount of advising, fellowships, paid trips, quality teaching and services available, not to mention the quality of physical facilities. So it's no wonder they are becoming increasingly selective.</p>

22

<p>posterX -- What do you think is the likelihood that these schools will evenually offer all admitted applicants full tuition? It seems as if they have ample resources to do so and right now they are losing many top students to schools that offer significant merit aid.</p>

23

<p>It is interesting to note where the big increases (on a percentage) basis are. They fall into two categories:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Large, urban, private universities (many previously undistinguished academically and some would say still undistinguished) where because of the high number of quality students applying, the student body may be perhaps better in quality than the school overall (due to very large classes, average faculty, minimal advising, low standards, etc.) - Have some of these schools simply become expensive diploma mills? Is there any value to be had at some of the less distinguished schools? Is there a "lemmings effect" at work in the population, fueled by anxiety provoking stories such as the one posted? Some of the behavior of students and parents appears quite irrational. </p></li>
<li><p>Large state schools -- no surprise, given raising tuition fees. This is obviously rational behavior.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Noticably absent on the list are LACs, who seem (with exception of the top two dozen LACS) to be not participating, to the same degree, in this new largesse of students. It's too bad because many offer a higher quality acadamic education than a lot of the schools on the list of "hot schools".</p>

<p>Thoughts???</p>

24

<p>Of the 73 colleges listed by friedokra as having 10% or more increases in applications from 2001 to 2006, 24 of these were public universities. All of the top rated publics reached this level of increase except for U Virginia, UCLA and U Michigan.</p>

<p>For the USNWR Top 20, 14 colleges achieved at least a 10% rate of growth. For the colleges ranked 21-50, 20 of the 30 achieved at least a 10% rate of growth. </p>

<p>Here is the complete list broken out by category:</p>

<p>Public Universities
60% U Minnesota
54% U Conn
48% U Tennessee
41% UC-Santa Cruz
36% SUNY-Binghampton
34% U Pittsburgh
32% Indiana U
30% U Texas
25% W&M
21% U Iowa
21% U Missouri
20% U Delaware
20% U Maryland
20% U Wisconsin
19% UC-Davis
19% U Florida
18% UC-Irvine
17% Auburn
16% UC-Riverside
13% U Georgia
12% UC-Berkeley
12% Clemson
11% U North Carolina
10% UC-Santa Barbara</p>

<p>Notable for their absence are U Virginia, UCLA, U Michigan, </p>

<p>Top 20 USNWR Ranked Colleges
70% Cornell
61% Johns Hopkins
51% Yale
37% Dartmouth
36% Notre Dame
30% Rice
28% Princeton
27% Emory
21% U Chicago
20% Vanderbilt
20% Harvard
17% Stanford
10% Brown
10% Northwestern</p>

<p>Notable for their absence are MIT, Caltech, Duke, U Penn, Columbia, Wash U</p>

<p>Colleges Ranked by USNWR 21-50
91% Tulane
61% Case Western
40% Boston College
39% Wake Forest
33% Lehigh
30% U Texas
29% USC
25% W&M
24% Rensselaer
20% U Wisconsin
19% UC-Davis
19% U Florida
18% UC-Irvine
16% NYU
13% Carnegie Mellon
12% U Rochester
12% Tufts
12% UC-Berkeley
11% U North Carolina
10% Brandeis </p>

<p>Many noticeable for their absence including Georgetown</p>

<p>All Others<br>
168% Baylor
117% Saint Louis U
70% Fordham
65% Marquette
53% Worcester
45% American
44% Southern Methodist
36% Syracuse
29% U Miami
28% Clark
24% Miami (OH)
22% George Washington
14% Purdue
14% Boston University
13% Pepperdine</p>

25

<p>It looks to me like many colleges with enormously high numbers of applications have no more room to grow--applicants know their chances are slim--while some other colleges that haven't been overwhelmed yet are being added to students' application lists.</p>

26

<p>"posterX -- What do you think is the likelihood that these schools will evenually offer all admitted applicants full tuition? It seems as if they have ample resources to do so and right now they are losing many top students to schools that offer significant merit aid."</p>

<p>Actually they aren't really losing that many, because their aid is so generous. And it's just getting more and more generous every year. The elites do not want to lose students because the students think that there will be a financial hardship. In many cases, it is now much more expensive for a family to send their kid to public universities.</p>

27

<p>wow....just wow...</p>

28

<p>In public positioning, the Ivies claim not to offer merit aid. It happens, but usually under a different name. But don't hold your breath that they are going to eliminate tuition for all students. For starters, they don't have to as there are folks lined up around the block ten times over to get in. Second, the idea of paying for college gets the students and the families to have some skin in the game. This is a good thing as it makes them really care about the experience. Third, while there has been some drain-off by places like Wash U and Vanderbilt and others by using merit aid, the numbers are relatively small. Until this reaches more of a critical mass, the Ivies are unlikely to retaliate.</p>

29

<p>hawkette,</p>

<p>The numbers can look pretty different if you pick a different cycle:<br>
Take Northwestern as an example:
2005 16,221
2006 18,385
2007 21,839 (common application adopted)</p>

<p>That's way more than 10% already. Actually, NU isn't the only one that saw significant increase in the past couple years. But regardless, different schools peak at different times. ;)</p>

30

<p>168% increase at Baylor?! Do you think it's because of the top 10% rule in Texas, or what? It was looking like a match (or even a safety) for my son, but with that kind of jump in applications, maybe not. Baylor as a reach?!</p>

31

<p>^<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/24/AR2006032401280_pf.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/24/AR2006032401280_pf.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

32

<p>Basically all this "admission into college is getting increasingly more difficult" just makes me want to cry.</p>

<p>It's so frustrating knowing that I am a good student, passionate, involved, and working my butt of to go to some of these schools, and yet I probably will not get in. It's very discouraging :(</p>

33

<p>Mairoula, please don't be discouraged. Even in situations with above average competition, quality trumps quantity. A higher number of applicants only means you may have to consider your strategy a little more carefully. </p>

<p>Buck up and be a Spartan... if what you say about yourself is true, you'll undoubtedly be met with success at a great school.</p>

34

<p>MY GOD WHAT A LOT OF NONSENSE.</p>

<p>Reality #1. </p>

<p>This time next year, the students who were heartbroken over not getting into their dream school are as likely as anyone to find happiness and long term success at the schools they end up attending.</p>

<p>Reality #2.</p>

<p>No one ever succeeds or fails in a career because they did or did not get into their dream school.</p>

<p>THE HYPE IS TORTURING THESE KIDS.</p>

35

<p>Holycow0515: Amen!</p>

36

<p>So true. There are about 50 top schools, not including honors colleges at large State U's, that are excellent. Everyone will find a home. the key is just applying to the ones where you will be happy. Dont apply to Dartmouth if you dont like snow. Dont apply to Stanford if you want an urban campus.</p>

<p>Know thyself and where thy will be happy.</p>

37

<p>Doc, So true!</p>

38

<p>Tokenadult,</p>

<p>My point was that most of those "new" HS seniors are likely to be first-generation college applicants, i.e. people whose parents and grandparents either came from another country, or did not graduate from HS, or settled in the past for high-paying, blue-collar manufacturing jobs that don't exist anymore (i.e. have been outsourced to developing countries). Although population growth is certainly a factor (especially in certain southern and southwestern states because of domestic and international migration), structural changes in the economy , for example rising family incomes and the transition from a blue-collar industrial economy to a knowledge-based, technology-intensive society, are far more important IMHO to explain the increasing demand for a college education.</p>

<p>My other point was that most of those new first-generation college students are unlikely to apply to HYPS. Instead, the state university systems, especially the flagship state universities, are actually the ones that will have to accomodate most of that rising demand and therefore are likely to show the greatest percentage increases in selectivity over the next years.</p>

39

<p>LisaT734, wish your daughter the best but it is clear that American universities are not about academic merit any more. 4.0 means nothing without knowing the grading standards, weight of a course etc. That's why, with all its faults, the SAT is a great leveller. </p>

<p>My S, last year, with a 2350 first attempt, 800s on 3 SAT subject tests, 5s on 11 APs, high school and regional tennis star etc etc was rejected by some Ivies, too many Asians. Social engineering indeed. Soon, this nation will be giving haircuts to the rest of the world, as it says in the book The World is Flat, it will be full of event planners and other useless occupations. The graduate programs are full of Chinese and Indians because the nation has lost its way. Sorry for the rant.</p>

40

<p>When were American universities ever only about academic merit? And when did pure brain power ever equal financial success? You make it sound like if every American doesn't get perfect test scores the nation will go spiraling down the tubes because we just weren't smart enough.</p>

<p>It's true Asian countries have the drive to become "the #1 developed country," but I fail to see a people that embrace creativity and entrepreneurialism. I had the privilege of visiting China over the summer and to be honest the feeling I got is that there's a certain submissive nature to grim duty..i.e. "you do this because it is good for you or us or China." And it's true that all those miles of fiber optics cables are bringing the technology to a people ready to better themselves, but I want to believe that American creativity and passion will continue to triumph.</p>

<p>I'm a true WASP class of '08, 2340 first-attempt, 800s on subject tests, all 5s, applying to almost every Ivy. I understand that if I don't get into the Ivy League it does not invalidate my humanity. I'm still a person with unique passions, interests, joys, and experiences. I will do something with them. And you might say "Say that again this time next year." I will sure as hell try.</p>