business and econ programs at Ivys

<p>Hey guys...i would appreciate any help or advice that i can get on this...</p>

<p>Im very interested in business and i just got deferred early decision from Wharton (UPenn's business school)...</p>

<p>Now im picking other ivy leagues to apply to and i want to limit my application...how would u rate the economics programs at the ivys and how do they rank compared to each other? Thanks...</p>

<p>Also...more general question that ive been thinkin about for some time...IS economics the same as business? Everyone takes it for granted that if youre interested in business, then youll major in econ, but i seem to find differences in the two subjects...I'm more interested in finance and i dont know if economics covers that...</p>

<p>Generally speaking, Harvard and Princeton have the top 2 Econ departments among the Ivies (and top 5 in the country). Yale comes in next. Then you have Penn. Columbia is next, followed by Cornell and then Brown. Dartmouth is last among Econ departments in the Ivy League. So, here's a recap (schools in parenthesis are non-Ivy schools that are just as good in Economics):</p>

<p>Harvard, Princeton (Chicago, MIT, Stanford)
Yale (Cal-Berkeley, Northwestern)
Penn (Michigan-Ann Arbor, UCLA)
Columbia, Cornell
Brown (Duke, Carnegie Mellon, NYU, Johns Hopkins)
Dartmouth</p>

<p>Economics and finance are about as similar to one another as Mathematics and Physics. So to answer your question...no, there aren't many similarities. But if you wish to go into Investment Banking, you do not have to study Finance. Economics will do just fine...provided it is from a top university. In fact, in Investment Banking circles, a BS/AB in Economics from Georgetown or Chicago may serve you better than a BBA in Finance from say UT-Austin or UNC.</p>

<p>Hi Bigjake587,</p>

<p>I’m sorry that you were deferred to your early decision school. It’s such a let-down to get that kind of news on the day that you have been eagerly anticipating for the past three months. Wharton of course has the top business program in the country, but I just want to point out a few wonderful opportunities at Cornell.</p>

<p>Cornell has an accredited business program in the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. The program is Applied Economics and Management (AEM) : <a href="http://business.aem.cornell.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://business.aem.cornell.edu/&lt;/a>. In fact Cornell and Penn have the only two accredited business programs by AACSB International (<a href="http://www.aacsb.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aacsb.edu/&lt;/a&gt;) in the Ivy League. This program has only been accredited since January 2002 (<a href="http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/02/1.24.02/AEM_accred.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/02/1.24.02/AEM_accred.html&lt;/a&gt;) . </p>

<p>If USNWR rankings are important to you, 2004 is the first year that Cornell's AEM appeared in the rankings and it came in at #14 which is terrific for a first-time ranking. This program is one of the most selective programs at Cornell with admission rates at 19% for the class of 2004. The career services advising and recruitment in this department is very strong. If you are a New York State resident, AEM is housed in one of the contract colleges, so you get a tuition break as well! </p>

<p>As another point of interest Cornell has the Cornell Entrepreneur Network (CEN) that offers courses, workshops and networking opportunities through all seven colleges. Many of the courses are offered in AEM, but you could study in any of the colleges and take advantage of CEN. Most of the students I met who partake in this program are extremely dynamic and creative.( <a href="http://epe.cornell.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://epe.cornell.edu/&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;br>
CEN provides an amazing opportunity to network with successful entrepreneurs and to hone your own entrepreneurial skills. </p>

<p>To answer your question about Economics, there is a strong Economics Department in the College of Arts and Sciences. (<a href="http://www.arts.cornell.edu/econ/mainwindow.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.arts.cornell.edu/econ/mainwindow.shtml&lt;/a&gt;.) </p>

<p>Hope this helps. I’m sure you will have wonderful choices in April.</p>

<p>Hey guys thanks for your response. I really appreciate it.</p>

<p>Alexandre...what you said was what i was thinking. The reason i want to study finance is more interest not career-oriented (although i am thinking about investment banking). Do colleges offer finance if they dont have a specific business program? Or...is it just common to take econ because finance is too specific?</p>

<p>Nagromis...i am well aware of Cornell...i think its a great school and i am applying there...the thing is that i have doubts about the agriculture and life sciences school...i would not necessarily want to go to that particular school and i find it weird that their best business program is located there...however, i am very interested in cornell's econ department...Thanks.</p>

<p>Unfortunately Bigjake, if you want to major in Finance, you have to go to a university that offers such a major to undergrads. Schools like Wharton, Stern, Michigan, Sloan and Haas. UVa, Carnegie Mellon and a couple of others are also quite good.</p>

<p>thanks...anyone else</p>

<p>For someone looking to go into business, (especially consulting and banking) I would argue that the best schools (for recruiting) are HYP Dartmouth Columbia. Alexandre is ranking graduate level econ departments which have very little to do with the success grads have in the business world. Williams, for example doesnt have a ranked econ department yet it does amazingly well with corporate firms. You will find that the stronger the alumni network, the better the recruiting and job placement (which is why Dartmouth Williams Yale and Princeton do well, Brown less so). The thing though is all the Ivies are relatively strong, so much that the difference between any of them is not substantial enough to strongly differentiate them. My advice is to pick the school environment you like the most, all the ivies will put you in a good position for recruiting.</p>

<p>This is to respond to your question of whether economics is related to finance. The two subjects aren't exactly joined at the hip, but it is common for people to double major in economics and finance at schools that offer both majors because they do have many similarities. </p>

<p>If you go to a school that doesn't offer Finance as a major, economics is still a great foundation for finance, especially if you take classes that deal with financial economics. Economics along with mathematics and statistics classes that build up your analytical skills provide a great foundation for a career in finance. You can always gradutae with a bachelor's degree in economics and then find a finance related job. And after a few years, you can go to graduate school for a Master's degree in Finance.</p>

<p>hey slipper i remember your many posts on undergrad business programs and i really respect your opinions...that is exactly what im doing...im applying to all the ivys...</p>

<p>my question...if i go to an ivy besides wharton...then i should major in economics if i hope to be recruited for banking right? </p>

<p>also, im starting to really like stern NYU...whats your opinion on that...and would it really be better to pick brown, cornell, and dartmouth over a top-ranked business program in the center of world commerce?</p>

<p>Hey Bigjake,</p>

<p>Economics is the most popular route for banking (make sure you want to bank though, its a lot of work!) from the Ivies, but I know many engineers and other majors that have gone into the field. Stern is an amazing school if you really like it, and honestly as long as you do well enough either Stern or an Ivy will get you there. Both are in the 'consideration set', so I would pick the institution you like the most.</p>

<p>thanks slipper...than what is finance for? is economics like an umbrella major that incorporates finance? </p>

<p>btw, can i get your email address or drop you some private messages cuz i think i can really use your help</p>

<p>and one more thing lol...besides the ivys, can you by any chance cut down the following list of schools based on best business/ reputation/ recruitment...i need to shorten the list...</p>

<p>U. of Chicago
U. of Michigan
U. of NC
Wash. U.
NYU
U. of Virginia
SUNY
Northwestern
Boston University
Carnegie Mellon
Emory</p>

<p>thanks a lot</p>

<p>bigjake i am in ur exact same situation and I would also like to know which schools you're going to apply to</p>

<p>my teachers are going to be ****ed when i drop these recommendation letters on them right before xmas break...I don't understand why colleges set their deadlines rt after xmas...its incredibly frustrating.</p>

<p>I think i'm going with Stanford (reg app at dec 15 which is crazy)
Harvard
NYU Stern
Penn State (safety)</p>

<p>yeh im facing a major dilemma right now...most other undergrad business schools besides stern and wharton offer a degree in business administration...idk if that degree is good for banking or good in general...idk if economics is the better degree....see if i get into wharton, stern or another good ivy league, i wont have to worry, but if i dont...then i dont know where else to apply and what to major in...</p>

<p>nah business admin is definetly not good for undergraduate unless you are a good entrepreneur</p>

<p>I'm still thinking economics, finance or double E. I am disappointed in Wharton...I thought I had a perfect app...but sometimes ivy are so damn unpredictable</p>

<p>Finance is the best way to go for non-Ivies for sure. Econ is the closest Ivies get to a major for banking.</p>

<p>Alexandre really hates Dartmouth doesn't he.</p>

<p>most schools dont offer strictly finance tho...plus it seems too specific...more of a graduate degree...</p>

<p>hey peter u applied to wharton too? Yeh it sucks we didnt get in...that school was perfect for my purpose...anyway can i get ur email or sn to talk further cuz im lost right now lol...</p>

<p>btw...previously i was gonna apply to UMich and Carnegie Mellon because the first has a good business admin program and the second has an undergrad school that gives a business admin degree...on one hand...i guess now i should not apply to them because business admin is not what i want...on the other hand i kno that UMich is known nationwide for its business program and both school claim that, even tho the degree is in business admin, the students learn everything abotu business including finance and econ and can choose concentrations...</p>

<p>any thoughts?</p>

<p>You can actually take many finance classes with a Business Admin degree. Its a great way to go, especially if you go to the highly ranked schools. Michigan is a great program that will open doors just like the Ivies.</p>

<p>As for your list...</p>

<p>Any of these will get you in the position to be looking at Banking jobs. Chicago and Northwestern might be better than UNC, but they both are in the 'consideration set', ie you will get a chance to get through the door. My email is <a href="mailto:rrj5@columbia.edu">rrj5@columbia.edu</a>
U. of Chicago
U. of Michigan
U. of NC
Wash. U.
NYU (Stern)
U. of Virginia
Northwestern
Emory</p>

<p>Less Excellent
Boston University
SUNY
Carnegie Mellon</p>

<p>Econ and finance can be related or they cannot be related. If someone majors in econ they can take classes like wage theory, political economics, and history of economic thought that have nothing to do with finance. But, they can also take classes like mathematical finance, forecasting, and financial markets that can be found in any finance curriculum. In fact, I believe modern finance gets most of its material from research economists. Many professors of finance have PhD’s in economics.</p>

<p>Alexandres list of economics departments is pretty good. I have a masters degree in econ and thus happen to know a little bit about the subject and what programs are strong.</p>