<p>After exchanging emails with a previoius poster, I realize that freshmen year and the B-School admissions process can be pretty stressful.
I was in your shoes last year, and I know it can be crazy trying to get the grades, classes, EC's and essays for the seemingly all-important Ross application.
It is extremely difficult, but not impossible. I beat the odds and will be studying at Ross this fall, focusing in finance.</p>
<p>I'm not your annoying 4 point student, so I am proof that there are others ways to get in without a perfect GPA. In fact, I bet 95% of you would have put your money on a rejection email going to my inbox.</p>
<p>If anyone wants to post questions on here, or direct message me I would be more than happy to help with any concerns regarding Ross or UM in general. Trust me, I know that it can feel overwhleming when it is what your entire first year is aiming at.
Let the chaos begin.</p>
<p>Hi, thanks for being there for us fellow freshmen, and congrats on getting into the Ross School of Business! </p>
<p>I’m not sure if I want to apply to Ross yet, since I enjoy economics more than business for now, but I haven’t studied business before and have no clear idea of what career I’m interested in yet. Can you share some pros and cons of taking a concentration in the Ross School, compared to majoring in Econ within LSA? The main benefit of being in Ross seems to be the heavier recruiting for better/quicker job placements, but I heard that the environment there can also be very competitive and pre-professional. I’m more interested in the liberal arts aspect in LSA personally, but will an Econ major be seen as a weaker applicant compared to a Ross graduate when it comes to consulting/accountancy/banking?</p>
<p>Some other questions I have related to UM freshmen year:
What classes do you recommend freshmen to take in their first semester? e.g. If I’m interested in taking econ as a concentration, is it better to fulfill the prerequisites, distribution requirements or the writing and language courses first?</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Is it common to graduate in 3 years (with transfer credits or spring classes)? If so, would you recommend it or not? I’m just thinking whether it’s possible for me to take less then 4 years to graduate, since I’m an intl student and the tuition fees are quite high, not to mention they increase each year.</p></li>
<li><p>Did you mostly get into classes that you wanted? I heard that class registration can be a chaos for popular courses, in which there’ll be long waitlists and some people might not get in their desired classes.</p></li>
</ul>
<ol>
<li><p>As far as Econ vs. Ross goes, I don’t think you could find a school with a better combination (clearly i’m biased, but still). I was all set to major in Econ, which I loved in high school, thinking I wouldn’t get into Ross.
Not sure if you have seen this, but I remember the Wall Street Journal ranking UM as the nation’s #1 Economics program. Though rankings vary based on publication, this is pretty clear evidence of its reputation. The higher level Econ classes also have more math infused theories and there are some cool specific classes like international banking and such. Lots of options.
I, myself, am more of a Finance person, but the liberal arts path is just what some people like. sounds like you might enjoy that. Ross has great job placement, and quite a reputation, but it can be pretty competitive, especially in admissions.
Aoso, you could consider Ross with a minor in Econ. This is pretty common and could provide a bridge for your interests!
Bottom line is you can’t go wrong here. There are plenty of econ majors that make more money out of college than Ross grads. Follow what you think you’ll enjoy more.
Since you’ll have a year before you apply, I suggest taking Econ 101 and Econ 102 (not the same semester). They are good classes to get you introduced to college econ.</p></li>
<li><p>Freshmen year classes. Definitely take Econ 101. it is mandatory for Ross and a good class in general. Really makes you jump into the world of college class.
Take english 125 or english 124 if you have any intention of applying to ross. also a prereq. 124 is more literature based, 125 is more persuasive papers.
Finally, I usually suggest Psych 111. I had no interest but found it really cool. Plus it is super easy. Everyone needs one of those freshmen year.</p></li>
<li><p>As far as early graduation, the Ross program is 3 years and planned out. As far as i know you can’t finish it early and can’t apply until after freshmen year. I understand your situation, UM is expensive. So if you take the Econ route you might be able to finish in 3 with spring/summer terms or AP credit. I’m definitely not an expert on this though, so no guarantees on that info.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>4.Class selection can be miserable. it is stressful, and classes can be difficult to get depending on when you register. I freaked out, but everything worked out just fine. Just be patient with it, and you’ll find a schedule that works. No one’s year is ruined because of scheduling, despite how it may feel when you register Worst case scenario you have to take a class second semester than you wanted, or you have to wake up at 8:30 once in a while.
Tip: throughout the summer, more classes are opened up for freshmen going to different orientations. So check periodically if you want to change something. you can alter your classes anytime until classes begin in September.</p>
<p>I just wanted to throw myself out there as another resource you can consult if you have any Ross-related questions. I too was admitted to Ross with a GPA that is far under the average (and outside of the middle 80%), and have done a lot of research with what Ross seems to like vs. dislike in the terrifying application process. If you ever have any specific questions or are afraid to post in this thread, feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>Just stuff to comment on so far,
Warriorlax thanks for making this thread, it is extremely helpful to incoming freshmen applicants and was a great idea.</p>
<p>In regards to your answer #3 on if you can graduate in 3 years, Ross requires not 3 years but 2.5 years to graduate minimum. This can be done by planning out your schedule carefully and taking all the required senior year courses and electives during the first semester. I know a few people that have done this to save a semester’s worth of money. Everything else you wrote is spot on.</p>
<p>Also on #4 about class selection, one thing I was always scared to do was put myself on waitlists for classes because I wanted the instant satisfaction of knowing what I was taking/what my schedule would plan out to. This semester I utilized the waitlist system an incredible amount and molded a great schedule out of it. Don’t be afraid to use waitlists, but make sure you have a solid schedule as backup just in case (you can drop these classes as you get into classes you waitlisted).</p>
<p>@DLgoblue - Ross looks for you to be heavily involved in 2 or 3 clubs with light participation in others. The HEAVILY involved part is important because one of your essays will be to describe a club/activity experience and how it shows your values. Also this will help you get some sort of leadership post somewhere in the year, which is important. You have 7 slots to fill out in regards to ECs you’ve participated in, and if you can get a solid 5 filled in I think you will have satisfied that section.</p>
<p>Don’t take Calc 2 just because you think Ross will like it. By all means if you’re good at math and are interested in pursuing it further go for it, but I have not met anyone who was been punished for not taking calc, and it will definitely not cost you a rejection. I would however, fill the Calc slot with another quantitative style class such as STAT or ECON 102 that can show you know your math.</p>
<p>@DLgoblue:
Agreed with Kyle on the Calc issue. Calc 2 is tough. But if you’re good at math don’t let that scare you off. I took Stats and liked it, it wasn’t very hard at all. Also took Econ 102 and can second that suggestion. It is different than 101, but still pretty interesting. I thought it was much harder than 101.</p>
<p>As far as EC’s go, find something you like. Too many people stuff their apps with pointless business clubs they don’t care about. I’d say find 1 or 2 serious, professional clubs that are somewhat business related, then find another 1 or 2 that are fun/interesting to you.
I got into a pretty selective finance club through Ross that i can give you more info on if you’d like.
Also, a lot of people like the Business frats such as AKPsi and Pi Chi Theta. I didn’t do either of these but they offer a nice social aspect as well and can introduce you to some good friends. Both are pretty hard to get into, but boast very high Ross acceptance rates.</p>
<p>As i’ve posted somewhere before, it’s all about Festifall. That’s where you can see basically every one of the 1,000+ clubs that UM has and find what interests you.</p>
<p>Hopefully this helps and i didn’t repeat too much of what Kyle said</p>
<p>From what I heard from friends, it’s safer to apply to Ross with easy classes in addition to the pre-reqs. They do factor in course rigor to some extent, but not nearly as much as pure GPA.</p>
<p>^I took hard classes and got a crappy GPA (but got in). I would agree with your friend, however, that it would make your life easier to take a less rigorous course load as long as you do very well at the other two sections of the application.</p>
<p>Thanks warriorlax123 and KyleTwentyEleven for your detailed replies! I figured the Econ major would suit me more, especially since it has less requirements for me to fulfil. Although I’m not thinking of applying to Ross now, I still have a few questions related to UM freshmen year, hope you can answer. :)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I actually gained IB transfer credits for Econ 101 and 102. Would you advise me to still take the courses? Most people think that Econ 101 is quite easy but 102 is hard. Can I know what Econ 102 mostly covers? Is there a lot of math used, because the IB Economics course doesn’t consist of much maths and I’m worried if I skip both Econ 101 and 102, I’ll have to catch up for upper-level courses. I’m going to take Math 115 this Fall then 116 in Winter, if that matters…</p></li>
<li><p>I’m a bit confused about the credits counting. Do credits gained for prerequisites count towards the credits for a concentration? If they’re not, which area do those credits fulfill? (e.g. do credits for Econ 101 and 102 count towards the ~30 credits needed for an econ concentration? If not, do they go under the General Electives, since they won’t satisfy the Area Distribution requirements or General requirements?)</p></li>
<li><p>More credit-counting confusion: I saw that Math 115 is 4 credits and it fulfils Quantitative Reasoning (under General requirements) and Math/Symbol Analysis (under Distribution requirements)? Does it mean that one can get 8 credits in total for that class…?
Similarly, as Great Books 191 and 192 satisfy First-year writing (4 credits) and the Humanities requirement (2 x 4 credits), does it mean those classes give 12 credits in total? Sorry I’m a bit lost at whether I can double-count credits or not.</p></li>
<li><p>If I don’t place out of the language requirement, how many courses/credits do I have to take?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Hey! I’ll answer what I can! haha these are tougher questions.</p>
<ol>
<li>Your assumptions were correct about Econ 101 and 102. 101 is in most cases easier than 102. Here’s the reason: The classes are curved. that means ~25% A’s, 30% B’s etc. 101 is a prereq to Ross, so you are competing against freshmen applying to Ross.
102 is also curved, but is a requirement IN Ross. So you are competing against kids a year older that were accepted to Ross, who I think it’s safe to safe are generally good at Econ.</li>
</ol>
<p>I didn’t think 102 was much math. There are some simple formulas but no hard calculus or anything like that. You’ll be fine. I haven’t even taken math at UM and didn’t struggle in 102.
101 is microeconomics based, starting from you basic supply/demand.
They claim you don’t need 101 for 102, but not previous experience would be tough in my opinion. They fly through supply/demand very quickly to review, then dive into more applied economics such as fiscal policy, monetary policy, trade, and foreign exchange markets.
Both were really interesting classes. Just not easy ones by any means.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I’m not positive about this, but I’m pretty sure you are correct with the last statement of #2, in that they will count for General Credit. I know this happened with me. I think I got 4’s on both AP Econ Micro and AP Econ macro, recieved the credits, but still took them freshmen year (101 and 102). So I got credit for my high school Econ classes AND my UM econ classes. Same with AP Statistics. The only reason i’m not positive is if the University requires Ross applicants to take Econ at UM for the admissions process. Maybe for econ majors it would pass you out of them? Perhaps Kyle can clarify this, otherwise it would be worth a call to the academic advising center before you schedule. They are really friendly and helpful. Phone: 734.764.0332</p></li>
<li><p>Pretty sure you can’t double count credits. LSA requires a distribution for graduation with x number of humanities, x number of social science etc. So I believe what that means is it would fulfill two of the distribution requirements, but would not count twice along your path to 125 credits (or whatever the total number is). Hopefully i read your question correctly there.</p></li>
<li><p>This one i’m sure about. 4 semesters. schedule it however you see fit.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>In addition, Ross students don’t have the Race and Ethnicity requirement or creative expression. (I’m not 100% on this, but I’m pretty sure). So in regards to requirements, Ross has less for distribution requirements, and both the BBA and ECON majors have a long list of required classes.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You have to have MATH 115 done before you can move onto ECON 401 which is what you take after 101 and 102, so you might as well take them in my opinion and get used to ECON at UM compared to in high school.</p></li>
<li><p>ECON 101 and 102 don’t count towards the concentration, not sure about 401 and 402. You will get your QR requirement done through these two courses, but the credits will go to general electives.</p></li>
<li><p>warriorlax is right, it’s only 4 credits. Classes can fufill multiple distribution requirements but their credit total doesn’t change.</p></li>
<li><p>After the placement exam you test out of x/4 semesters of your language. If you choose to pursue a new language you have to take 3 or 4 semesters depending on whether you place into the advanced intro class or not.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks for your replies, you both are really helpful!</p>
<p>Re: #1. I’m hoping to place out of Econ 101 and 102, and take a 300-level Econ course along with Math 115 this Fall, then take Econ 401 in the next semester or in Sophomore year. Would this be wise? I saw certain 300-level courses like Econ 395-Topics in Microeconomics and 310-Money and Banking only have Econ 301 as their prerequisites, so I guess they’re easier than Econ 401? Or do most people take them they AFTER Econ 401?</p>
<h1>2. I read that Econ 401 and 402 count towards the concentration, along with 15 credits gained from other upper-level (300 and 400 level) electives. Since Econ 101 fulfils the QR requirement but the credits go to General Electives, do I have to take another class not related to my major (e.g. Physics) to fulfil the QR credit in making up ~30 credits for the General Requirements? Or will I not have to take any more QR class but an extra free elective (e.g. history) towards the 125 credits for a degree? Sorry if I’m being unclear here! I should probably ask my academic advisor such questions, but I have Fall orientation and have been recently thinking of what my schedule would be like.</h1>
<h1>1: I would actually recommend taking ECON 101 and 102 again. College ECON is far more difficult then HS ECON (I took AP Micro/Macro as well), and since you’ve already had exposure to it you will be a little bit ahead of the rest of the class. ECON 101/102 are the basis for every other ECON class, so having a good handle on those is important. Most people take 300 level after 401 but you can do them before as long as 401 isn’t a pre-requisite.</h1>
<h1>2: You will have the QR requirement more then satisfied with just the required ECON classes, so don’t worry about that. You can take an elective, it’s really up to you what you’re schedule will be.</h1>
<p>I believe so because applying as a sophomore A. Shows you mean business (pun intended) and aren’t just a freshman apllying bc its hard to get into and B. It means an extra semester or 2 of tuition. Also C. You have more time to gain experiences that can create very good essay topics.</p>
<p>Chances are probably greater if you got denied as a freshman because it shows that you’re really interested and committed to attaining a BBA, but if you’re applying for the first time as a soph I doubt it boosts your chances.</p>
<p>The more I think of it, the more I consider the only way it would boost my chances would be if Mary Sue told Ross to accept more sophomore to drain their pockets.</p>
<p>I know this is a Ross admissions thread but since “kyle” and “maize” have been accepted to Ross I thought I would ask if they plan on studying abroad? I understand with the Ross program you are not able to take a semester abroad. Are either of you going to try to go over the summer? Does this study abroad limitation have any negative effect on you?</p>
<p>Not going to study abroad, not at all mad about it. I wouldn’t miss football season for the world and in general don’t really want to leave Ann Arbor during the year, you only get four after all. I plan on internships in the summer so I doubt I’ll leave the country.</p>
</p>