84% of the American “leaders” of today did not attend an Ivy+ college for undergrad and 87% of the CEOs of the largest 1000 US companies did not get their undergrad degree from one( Ivy+ defined as Ivy + Chicago,Duke,MIT,Stanford).
So?
Of course, the argument could use the same numbers to go the other way, in that 16% of “American leaders” went to one of those colleges, which enroll far fewer than 16% of all college students.
But then a counter to this argument would be questioning whether that is due to treatment effect or selection effect.
We have this revelation many times per year. Just as popular as announcing the Ivies are nothing more than a sports league. (No offense, OP.)
^…But it’s still probably a good thing to point out many times per year, given how many students on CC seem to think their lives will be over if they don’t get into an Ivy…(plus, there are new posters registering all the time who haven’t heard it all yet.)
This is news to… who again?
“We have this revelation many times per year.”
Absolutely true, if not a few times per week. However, just as often we get posts from high school students who seem to think that they need to go to an Ivy in order to be successful in life.
I occasionally wonder whether we need a list of the most common arguments by number, so that we can just refer to “arguments # 1, 13, 4, and 43” and abbreviate our posts.
^ thats been done too, @DadTwoGirls
Not to mention the CC posters who recommend kids give up a full ride or merit scholarships at their good state colleges and spend 280k at one of the elites because an ivy education will make them more successful!
To add to my OP, the percentage of ivy+ educated leaders(C-suites) in tech/silicon valley will be less than 5%.
Hmmmm… very interesting…
Let’s see:
Ivy-Plus = 12
Non-Ivy-Plus = 4,600
Share of Leaders with Undergraduate Ivy-Plus Degree:
89% of U.S. Supreme Court is from 12 Ivy-Plus schools and 11% from 4,600 Non-Ivy-Plus schools
28% of Circuit Courts from 12 Ivy-Plus and and 72% from 4,600 Non-Ivy-Plus
27% President’s Cabinet from 12 Ivy-Plus…
25% Forbes (BA, Princeton) 400 Richest from Ivy-Plus…
23% U.S. Senate…
23% Top 120 Nonprofits…
Etc.
Share of Leaders with Graduate Ivy-Plus Degree:
100% of U.S. Supreme Court from 12 Ivy-Plus and 0% Non-Ivy-Plus schools
40% of Top 120 Nonprofits from 12 Ivy-Plus…
36% Circuit Courts…
23% Russell 1,000 CEOs…
22% Forbes 400 Richest…
Etc.
So what’s this article about?
The author, who holds a BA in economics from Swarthmore, begins the article, “Given that the U.S. News list represents only a tiny sliver of the nation’s 4,600 degree-granting colleges, perhaps it [Ivy-Plus] doesn’t deserve so much media attention.”
Then, in the next paragraph, he asks, “Or does it?”
Does it?
No matter how you slice the data, ivy plus schools give a leg up in one’s future.
Conflating undergraduate and graduate is very misleading, there’s very few people that question the importance of a grad degree from a top school, as there’s a correlation between where you went to grad school and success. There has been no or very little evidence to show a correlation between where you went to undergrad and success.
Anecdotally Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, is a great example, undergrad Auburn, MBA from Duke.
The age old CC question is, do some really think it’s a leg up? That Joe Average gets fairy dust?
Or that the sort of determined, energetic, and open kids who could get into a TT, already have been exhibiting the skills to succeed? They’d fare well in other environments, too.
In fact, they may not need that “badge,” at all. Old expression: the clothes don’t make the man.