<p>Mid quarter grades were posted today and my junior daughter ( An A student in all honors) has a C- in apush. All other grades are strong. She loves this course, says the teacher claims he rarely gives anyone an A, but everyone scores well on the ap exam. Most of the class has failed his first two tests. It seems he takes pride in having the hardest course in the school, and claims to be preparing students for college. I think I should talk with this teacher, but am not sure what to say. I am all for a rigorous course, but think these low grades are out of line, and will hurst the students' chances of getting into highly selective schools. Suggestions?</p>
<p>I agree with you researcher. Speak to the teacher if it doesn't cause your daughter to disown you! Teachers who take pride in "rarely give(ing) anyone an A" are probably helping in the very long term, and hurting in the short term.</p>
<p>A "B" in apush will probably not affect your DDs chances. But a C sticks out like a sore thumb to any Top 20 adcom. A C could be determinant in removing those top 20 from realistic consideration.</p>
<p>P.S. in most schools, the teacher who grades extremely tough compared to other teachers is usually well known. Did you daughter know this before picking apush?</p>
<p>If the teacher really wants to prepare the students for college, he could put his money where his mouth is and award final grades that align with the scores kids get on the AP exam. Get a 5, get an A. I think that's the argument I'd be making, were I a student in his class.</p>
<p>You could certainly speak to the teacher, but don't be surprised with the response. When at my son's Back to School Night last week, parents were simply asking if their students could have more time to take their AP Chemistry tests in her class. Their case was that last year, the students had a situation in regular Chem class where the teacher took off for maternity leave, they had a different teacher in between and then the original teacher returned for the rest of the year.</p>
<p>The parents (several of them) felt that the teacher should go at a slower pace and give some special attention to the fact that the students had a rough year last year.</p>
<p>Her response? This is a TRUE college prep class and I cannot slow down to some of the students needs. I have to teach to the middle to upper level in this class, as their are some that are bored with the pace that I am taking. I cannot give extra time for tests, as the AP exam next May is very strictly timed and it is my job to make sure that the students are prepared for the rigors of the test both material and time wise.</p>
<p>Good Luck! I would love to hear what the teacher has to say. I personally would not recommend someone taking an AP class that it going to potentially hurt the GPA and not help it.</p>
<p>Remember, that most, if not all of the colleges do not take the weighted GPA into the admissions process. They take the students transcript, take all of the non-academic classes out of the mix, add in a formula for the honors and AP course grades and come up with a result from their own calculations. </p>
<p>I think students should be really careful when choosing AP courses as it can end up being detrimental instead of helpful.</p>
<p>College admission officers generally know by name all the teachers who rarely give out grades of A, so I wouldn't worry about this overmuch.</p>
<p>Is your highschool on the radar of the schools that your D is considering? As Tokenadult says, if a school is known by a college, and a rigorous grading system is understood, that can be fine. Do the top kids at your D's school get into their choice of college despite low grades in APUSH? Are they the type of schools that your D is targetting?</p>
<p>If your school is one where most of the kids go to State U or local schools and your daughter has other plans, it can be a real problem to have a "C" in that course. Also find out if indeed a "C" is usual fare in that course. Not to doubt your D, but if it were my S, well,... If she can bring up the grade to a B for the year, it usually is no problem as most schools only report year end grades. I do believe that now is the last chance she has to change to another course without the switch indicated on her transcript. If this is indeed going to be an issue, it may be wise for her to switch.</p>
<p>
[quote]
College admission officers generally know by name all the teachers who rarely give out grades of A, so I wouldn't worry about this overmuch
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I disagree. Adcoms may know the grading policy of the school but not at the level of individual teacher. I spent my senior year being stressed out by a IB HL English teacher who was thrilled to have the school superlative of hardest grader.</p>
<p>After an entire career of nearly straight A's (an A being a 94 or above, an no weight for honors) this teacher graded me as a C-D student. I had visions of having my acceptances to places like UPenn, UVa, Chapel Hill and several others rescinded. No matter how hard I worked it was never enough. I ended the year with a C+ but I scored a perfect 7 on the IB exam. My SAT scores were 760 CR and 750 W. I was exempt from all future English requirements in college, but my senior year was ruined by all of the stress of trying to improve.</p>
<p>The president of my class who was accepted by MIT Penn and many others got a B- and spoke of this teachers unfairness during commencement.</p>
<p>Some teachers are just mean. Old saying, if the students fail to learn, the teacher has failed to teach. I don't think it's right for the rare rogue teacher to have the potential to ruin a strong students college career.</p>
<p>My parents tried to speak with the teacher but she didn't care. She pretended to but didn't return graded assignments for months if at all. </p>
<p>Ditch this teacher if you can.<br>
Just my 2 cents</p>
<p>Sounds like Son's AP Bio teacher last year: "I'd rather you fall on your face in this class than when you take Biology in college." Excuse me, but for most people, freshman level biology is not all that hard. There were a few future pre-meds that got As, but not many.</p>
<p>I have a problem with so many of the AP teachers making the class impossibly difficult "because it's a college class." Okay, maybe, but it's a 100 level class, not a 300 level class. I admit that I didn't go to a selective university, but the 100 level required classes were not hard.</p>
<p>"She loves this course."</p>
<p>Isn't that, and whether she's learning anything, what matters?</p>
<p>I think this is something for your d. and the teacher to work out.</p>
<p>I'm currently in AP spanish and I took AP European History last year. I'm also in the dual enrollment program at my school and I took 2 classes over the summer (it's a university with a pretty good reputation too). I found my college courses to be easier than my AP courses. 100 level classes are challenging and have a moderate workload, but nothing outrageous. Any instance where an A student is getting D's in an AP course is kind of ridiculous.</p>
1 Like
<p>My d took AP english during her senior year. Always straight A's, 5's on all her other AP exam, etc. She got an 800 on the writing section of the SAT. She's an incredible writer and the AP english teacher would grade her essays 3/8, 4/8. My d was shocked. What we did, however, was have d approach the teacher to find out what she could do to improve her grade. The teacher told her exactly what she was looking for. I had her meet with the teacher after every low grade and go over what areas she needed to improve. Her grades that year ranged from B to B+ on the report card & she ended up with an A- for the final grade (don't ask me how), and got a 5 on the AP exam. I think this teacher was an extremely hard grader, but I also feel that having d meet with the teacher (and not me) helped ease the pain of a lower mark.</p>
<p>If everyone in the class is getting low grades you can talk to your GC, who could include a note about the unusual grading policy of this particular teacher.</p>
<p>
[quote]
College admission officers generally know by name all the teachers who rarely give out grades of A, so I wouldn't worry about this overmuch.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I read that and thought you were being sarcastic at first. But then I realized, different world! College admission officers barely know our school exists, much less know anything about grading trends, much *much *less know individual teachers.</p>
<p>I agree and offer much sympath over the fact that it can have an impact on where a student gets into college, and that knowing that this is true in no way contradicts the fact that it is good that the student is learning. A student should both be able to learn a lot, and not have artificial impediments to the attending a given college or type of college.</p>
<p>I concur with discussing it with the GC to see if a note on the rigorous grading of the class can be included in the app letter.</p>
<p>Long story, but my son sounded like NYmama's child. All A's in English, 5 on AP Literature, won some essay contests, etc. AP Language teacher didn't agree I guess, and he got C's in there all year, including his final grade. He also got a 5 on that AP test. The counselor knew this teacher and, without being asked, wrote a letter and sent it to all his schools with his counselor recommendation. A discussion with the GC certainly couldn't hurt.</p>
<p>I find it hard to believe that one poor mark is going to make or break where your kid goes to school. Seriously. Would you really want your child going to a school that would decide your child is not a fit because they got a single C in a single AP course? Is it really that simplistic? If your child isn't at least a 4.0 they are in the outbox. I don't think so.</p>
<p>^ I don't find that at all hard to believe. If you as an adcom had a choice between two reasonably-equivalent BWRKs and one had a C in an AP course, which would you pick? It's an obvious choice, especially if you are LOOKING for reasons to weed out candidates.</p>
<p>Keilexandra- yes, having a "C" does seem like a possible way to get waitlisted--especially for girls in highly selective admissions pools--- </p>
<p>I think mathmom makes an excellent point, but the life lesson is truly about getting at least a "B" by using the problem-solving model of NY MAMA-- it certainly worked for my d with a similiar ap course challenge to encourage her meet with the teacher and get feedback on what could be better. </p>
<p>Plus, this situation WILL occur on the college campus too in those killer weeder prereq classes-- so I think my d's experience in h.s. with tough AP teachers helped her confront those hard weeder classes too. Two years into college, it has certainly happened that she's had some incredibly difficult situations in certain classes. I think looking back on those tough AP classes that there was invaluable problem-solving experience gained there for her.</p>
<p>"College admission officers generally know by name all the teachers who rarely give out grades of A, so I wouldn't worry about this overmuch."</p>
<p>How many thousands of high schools are there in the country, and how many AP US History teachers? How could college admissions officers POSSIBLY know this? How the heck would they know the AP US History teacher in my kids' school from Adam?</p>
<p>It depends on which school the OP's D is attending and what the history of kids going to what schools. Maybe there are kids who have gotten C's in the course who still get into top schools or more importantly the schools the young lady is eyeing. </p>
<p>That she loves the course is a wonderful thing and if the situation is such that this is not a rogue teacher and the outcome of the course is consistent with The OP's D's college goals, it is fine. I know that colleges will routinely overlook a C in Calc B/c from my son's school as that is a grade frequently given in that course that has not hurt many of the kids I know. This is a known thing at his school. Perhaps the same thing goes with this course and the colleges that are usual for the high school kids there to attend. It would be a problem if the young lady has her sights on a top school and this is not a school that is known by them.</p>
<p>I don't get it. These so-called "top" colleges are inundated by applications - why SHOULDN'T they hold a "C" against a candidate when they can likely get one who took the same class and got a "B-minus"? Seems like this teacher, to his or her credit, is helping the schools do the sorting, and since the teacher will know the students in that class better than any of the admissions officers ever will, why not?</p>
<p>I think the GC should definitely keep his nose out of it. This is something between teacher and student.</p>