<p>My D16 hopes attend OU and we are trying to figure out the best math class for her to take next year. She's currently in AP CAL BC and will likely get a 5 on the AP test. Her high school offers a class called Multi Variable CAL that is a combination of CAL III first semester and Differential Equations second semester. This class is weighted the same as an AP class but there is no AP test for it so there is no college credit.</p>
<p>OU will accept CAL III taken at our local CC if she takes it dual enrollment next year.</p>
<p>Do you think it's better for her to take the CAL III at the CC or take the multi class at her high school and then take the "advance standing test" for credit once she's admitted to OU?</p>
<p>Multi class
pros:
no travel time
no extra expense
two semesters (will cover more material than CAL III)
will bump up GPA</p>
<p>cons:
no auto college credit
will need to get departmental permission for the advance standing test
will need to take the test the advance standing test</p>
<p>CAL III at CC
pros:
college credit
experience in a college classroom</p>
<p>cons:
expense (tuition, registration, books, parking)
travel time
will need to take placement test (more time and expense)
will conflict with some EC's
one semester</p>
<p>At this point I'm leaning to suggesting the she take Multi-variable at HS but I don't have any experience with advance standing exam and don't know how difficult it is to get permission to take them or how they are viewed at OU. Are there disadvantages to taking an advance standing exam that she should be aware of?</p>
<p>What is the end goal? If she is the type of student that is taking those courses, the GPA is not likely an issue for admission. </p>
<p>To me, the problem with an advanced HS course (or even some CC courses) is that without the standardized exam, you are not really sure the instruction was up to par. That is fine if you are not planning on going further in that field. If she is taking more math and science at OU, I would say don’t even bother. Starting OU with Diff. Equations is challenging enough. Have her take the time to improve in other areas? Again, it all depends a bit on the end goal.</p>
<p>GPA is not a concern for admission but the better the GPA the better the chance for private merit scholarships.</p>
<p>She’s looking at the Meteorology program and per the departments advice to high school students:
“You can begin preparing to earn a degree in Meteorology in a number of ways
Take as many math courses as you can, especially in algebra and calculus.”</p>
<p>She’s also interviewed two practicing Meteorologist (both graduates of OU) and both stressed that she take as much math as possible while in high school. Thankfully math, especially higher math, is an area that she enjoys and excels in.</p>
<p>My question isn’t should she take a math class her senior year of high school but where. Your point on the quality of instruction is well taken. I’ve spoken with the high school teacher and asked her to compare her class to the CC and the HS class covers more concepts. So far I have been very pleased with the quality of instruction at the high school but the CC is a total unknown.</p>
<p>Since she’ll need to validate her knowledge by taking the Advance Standing Exam if she takes the HS class and she would not need to do this for the CC I guess that’s the way to go. </p>
<p>This is what’s required to get a degree in meteorology at OU. If you look at the rightmost column, you’ll notice the math requirements. If she finishes calculus at the CC, she will be fine. Multi-variable will not help her in required classes as she does not need to take Differential Equations. If she wants a math major or a math minor, it changes things a little, although entering OU with as much math as she’s going to is a great advantage no matter what.</p>
<p>Thanks WoolScarves, I had seen the check list and according to that, for math she needs:</p>
<p>MATH 1914
MATH 2924</p>
<p>MATH 2934 or MATH 2443</p>
<p>MATH 3413</p>
<p>METR 4313 or MATH 4753</p>
<p>If she makes a 5 on AP CAL BC which is very likely, she will get credit for both MATH 1914 and MATH 2924
if she take the Multi class in high school, it covers CAL III plus Muti Dimensional and she <em>should</em> be able to pass the Advance Standing Exam for Math 2443, if she takes the CC CAL III class she would get transfer credit for MATH 2934.</p>
<p>Looking at a math minor as suggested on the bottom of the METR info page (not sure if this is something she cares about or not), if she picks MATH 4753 over METR 4313 she would only have to take one other 4000 level MATH class of her choice to meet the requirements for a Math Minor. This would give her more than the 6 hours required to be done “in residence” and meet the requirements for 9 upper division classes with 6 hours of 4000 level classes.</p>
<p>Before folks start thinking I’m am some crazy helicopter mom that is planning out her child’s college classes, I just want to help her make the best choice for her 12th grade math class. Once she get to OU her classes are between her and her adviser. She could always change her major altogether.</p>
<p>What I’m trying to figure out is, is there any advantage or disadvantage to getting transfer credit for MATH 2934 from a CC class vs. credit from Advance Standing Exam for Math 2443?
D would rather take the Multi class at her school than dealing with the hassle of driving to an off campus CC class, though the thought of the advance standing test is a bit intimidating.</p>
<p>The only question is convenience. Most schools have policies for full tuition waivers and inclusion of grade in GPA IN ADDITION TO having the credit for the community college course on the community college transcript. A college course is more impressive than even an AP (college equivalent) course, and there is proof that your daughter can function in a college environment. Many community colleges offer internet classes, where you only go to campus for an occasional exam. Credit by exam is discouraged in some campuses, I can’t speak for OU, and is rare. The methodology is to have the student take the final exam for the course and record that grade, so no matter how well she learns it, she will need to perform on a test tailored to a potentially different textbook, with potentially different style/emphasis. No question, the community college course is the better way to go. Here is the policy page (as an example) pulled from the Jenks High School website: <a href=“http://www.jenksps.org/pages/uploaded_files/INFO%20Concurrent%20Enrolment%20(3).pdf”>http://www.jenksps.org/pages/uploaded_files/INFO%20Concurrent%20Enrolment%20(3).pdf</a> </p>
<p>Our school has a policy for a reduce tuition for DE but it isn’t free and there are a few extra costs, placement test fee, books and registration in addition to the tuition.There isn’t an option for taking CAL III online at our CC and there are only a few courses offered each semester, generally 3 evening classes at three different campuses and one of those is much too far away. CAL III isn’t a very popular class to take at our CC.</p>
<p>If her concern was which is the better class to take to impress an admission committee I’d agree the CC would be the better choice but that’s not the case here. D16 has excellent grades and test scores and will not have an issue getting accepted into OU. </p>
<p>@ItsJustSchool can you tell me where on that website it says anything about concurrent enrollment being a 'better way to go" I’m not saying that it is or isn’t, but I just can’t see that page saying anything about it either way. It appears to be the rules for that high schools students to participate in concurrent enrollment. We don’t live in OK so none of those procedures would apply but D16 wouldn’t have an issue meeting any of those qualifications. </p>
<p>At this point I really need to figure out if there is any advantage to have credit for MATH 2934 over MATH 2443 It doesn’t seem to make a difference in METR major or MATH minor and I really can’t see her going for a MATH major, off to check out the requirements of a few other majors just in case she changes her mind! </p>
<p>@3scoutsmom the website does not give a judgment. That judgment (“better way to go”) was my own. It shows intent of Oklahoma State Regents (I was assuming you were an OK resident). It does make clear that the grade would be included in the student’s High School GPA. You had stated that you were interested in improving chances for merit scholarships. I had found that having a college letter grade may be an advantage in helping buoy a college GPA as well, for example for entry into the Honors program when a freshman class didn’t go as planned. There is also the advantage of completing the requirement in one semester. She could still join her HS math class second semester, if she wanted to, or take a “release period”, or independent study, or an additional CC course. I just feel that there is more upside and less downside to going to a CC. This is my opinion.</p>
<p>My two cents … Getting credit for high school or CC courses taken is great and a money saver, but it isn’t necessarily the primary concern. Coursework taken during high school should serve first to well prepare the student to transition to college level work in their chosen field of study. I would try to determine the course(s) that would best prepare her for the courses she will take in her first year or two of college. If she takes a course, receives credit for it, and is ready for the next level course in college … great. If she goes in with credit for an additional college course and is not ready for the next level of course, then that could be a problem. </p>
<p>I would also check into the requirements for any scholarships to ensure that your student would qualify as an entering freshman. Taking CC courses (in some cases) can disqualify a student from such qualification and they would only be eligible for upperclassman or transfer scholarships. The devil is in the details there.</p>
<p>I think when you get advice like ‘take as much math as possible’ it is directed more toward students who are on the other end of the math spectrum. The advice is good in general, but it is really overkill in your child’s case.</p>
<p>My son is a first year student who got the 5 on Calc BC and against the advice of the advisers went straight to Diff Equations. He is doing fine, but says the work is tough. Many of his math major friends (most are NMS) are struggling with the course.</p>
<p>What I would hate to see is someone enter college thinking they had a great understanding of the concepts from a HS or CC course and get overwhelmed by the rigor in upper-level math courses. In your child’s case, it sounds like she could simply skip math altogether at the college level as the requirements for that major would be met?</p>
<p>She need’s either MATH 2433 Cal and Analytic Geometry or MATH 2924 Differential & Integral Calculus
The Cal III class at the CC would transfer in as MATH 2924 or the Advance Standing Exam is offered for MATH 2433. From what I can see these math classes are interchangeable for almost all majors. The only other math classes she would need after that for Meteorology would be MATH 3413 Physical Math and MATH 4753 Statistical Math. If she wanted to add a math minor she’d need one additional math class of her choice at the 4000 level.</p>
<p>I contacted OU and found out that although the Advance Standing Exam would count for the MATH 2433 requirement but it wouldn’t actually give her credit as she will likely max out the limit of 32 AP/CLEP credit that can be counted toward her degree and Advance Standing credit is counted as AP/CLEP credit. They will, however allow up to 64 transfer credits. She already has two college classes that OU may or may not accept, if they do they’d only count as electives, an online math class and an ‘articulated’ computer science class and she plans to take a dual credit class speech class that is taught on her high school campus next year. If she takes the CC Cal III class she’ll have between 7 and 13 transfer credits</p>
<p>The scholarships she is hopes to get are OU’s NM package, one from her father’s employer and maybe some small local scholarships. Neither the National Merit nor her father’s employer have restrictions about dual enrollment classes. I haven’t read the fine print on the local ones but dual enrollment is encouraged locally so I don’t think that would be an issue. There are some departmental and national meteorology scholarships but most are for upperclassman.</p>
<p>I ordered the text book they list as a study guide for the Advance Standing Exam and plan to have D go through it next year as she is taking math regardless if it is the class at the CC or high school to make sure she understands the concepts that she is expected to know. I asked the high school teacher if D could take the CC class first semester and her class the second semester and she said that would not be possible as it is a year long course. If D ends up taking the CC class I may push the issue and ask that she be allowed to ‘audit’ the class the second semester.</p>
<p>So the choice is:
Take the high school class and then the Advance Standing exam
pass the exam but don’t get actual credit and go onto MATH 3413
fail the exam and take either Math 2433 or Math 2924
OR
Take the CC class for credit for Math 2924 and then go on to MATH 3413
if she doesn’t feel prepared for MATH 3413 she could still take MATH 2433</p>
<p>If we can get the schedule worked out I think the CC class is the best option.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for helping me think this through!</p>
<p>It sounds like you’ve got this one. The CC would not likely jeopardize her scholarship. @Torveaux, I think that when you sign up for class, you indicate what kind of student you are. There is usually a category for HS student that is non-matriculating. Once you matriculate- that is, post-secondary pursuit of a degree, you are a freshman. Then, after that any freshman scholarships are not available to you. High school dual enrollment is not this case, as OP noted.</p>
<p>I doubt your DD will be scouring for credits when she graduates from OU. Either path will work. If it complicates her life, she may decide against the CC course, and have more time her senior year on her high school campus with her friends. She has great choices.</p>