<p>My son’s school deals with this a lot since kids commonly have quite a few college credits by graduation (typically, close to a full year). They rarely take APs because most colleges are fine with seeing the college courses (backed up sometimes with supplemental data like syllabus). However, the school also notes that how colleges view courses in terms of credit varies greatly. More selective schools do tend to be fussier.</p>
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<p>If your daughter can take AB in school and BC elsewhere (either in the summer, evenings, weekends, etc.) that might be helpful to her and also will “look good” on applications. But you will need to check carefully to see what the high school calc syllabus includes and what the CC offers to avoid both gaps and redundancy.</p>
<p>It occurs to me that one of the issues here is if the AP Calculus at the student’s school is AB or BC. If the AP Calculus is AB, it is pointless to sit there for an entire year. In that case, I think he or she should take Calculus I and II. Besides, if he takes even BC and then tries to take Calculus III at the college he may find they skipped what the college expects the students to know (epsilon-delta notation, advanced proofs, etc.).</p>
<p>I took AP Calculus BC online as a sophomore because my school does not offer APs–heck it doesn’t even offer Pre-cal. We received a textbook that was 1/2 inch for all of Calculus I and II, the course itself contained no lessons after the first unit or 2. No teacher at my school is competent in calculus and I almost failed the course (one could not drop for any reason after the first 5 days).</p>
<p>I’m taking Calculus I right now at my community college, and I can tell you that the problems here are significantly harder and we receive quite a bit more of them in a shorter amount of time. Only 3 or 4 people have A’s (thankfully I’m one of them). I plan to retake the BC test this year so it doesn’t look like I did poorly in BC and then ran to the community college for an easier time.</p>
<p>I think AP over college course is a good idea only when you go to a top high school. Otherwise your teacher may have a BA in “Math Education” and no student received a grade of 3+ in the past 20 years vs. a teacher whom you know at least has a MA or MS in math.</p>
<p>Also, in North Carolina high school students are guaranteed credit at any UNC school, including UNC-CH and NCSU, for a C or better in any college transfer course. Many private schools (Except Wake, Davidson, and Duke) have signed the same agreement the UNC schools did, also ensuring credit.</p>
<p>What is this about universities not accepting CC creds. I have almost 30 credits and at least 50% of that transferred. Three courses transferred for one class (general program). And some of them were not in my program.</p>
<p>CC courses are at least the same quality of APs in school. BUT if you want the cheaper option, go for the APs. Also, APs will not count towards transfer credits, which is a plus…</p>
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<p>M-O-N-E-Y</p>
<p>Some schools will even straight up tell you that they’ll give you credit for courses but you have to pay them the equivalent of their tuition rate for the credits. I’m still clarifying this will my state flagship, but their policy seems to suggest that while they’ll only let you transfer 64 credit hours you can use other courses to meet requirements even if you don’t get hours for them. I’ll graduate from high school with over 80 credit hours.</p>
<p>S went to a hs that only offered AP Calculus AB. Because it is normally taken by seniors at his hs, it was a conflict for him with the junior year 2 hour American Studies class for juniors that encompasses AP US History and AP Literature exam. He took the AP class independent study with the hs teacher (who he had also had for Algebra II) and also took it at our local cc. Made a 5 on the AP test and was able to move on to an independent study course in real analysis through the Stanford program his senior year. Although he started in engineering, he quickly switched majors to economics and mathematics and encountered no issues in moving forward in his university’s math classes. He was given credit for the 4 hour calculus class from the cc and another class taken at the cc his senior year. I believe that it is important to keep those kids who have accelerated in math involved in it and moving forward and cc classes are a good way to do that.</p>
<p>Folks should also be aware that one cannot take both the AP Calc AB and the AP Calc BC in the same year.</p>
<p>Also be aware that the HS class taken does not restrict one to a specific AP exam. I had no idea that AP Calc at our high school was AB until this year (now that S2 is taking it). S1, three years ago, took AP Calc and then earned a 5 on the AP BC exam. I hadn’t realized that while the course at our HS was labeled “AB”, that students can (and often do) opt to take the BC exam. Now with this knowledge, I am encouraging S2 to be sure he does whatever it takes to learn the material for the BC test.</p>
<p>I would do the AP class + a concurrent self-study in additional depth.</p>
<p>Speaking for all bored freshmen in the “urban” area,
i feel it’d be best if we introduced calculus as soon as possible. It would challenge us and make us excited about going to school the next day. Instead of waking to another unstimulating day of torture by your peers and brain melting repition. Well, then again, I do go to public school in the inner city. No offense to anyone else.</p>
<p>Online AP courses may be a good way to go.</p>
<p>Placement policy at colleges, for students with good AP scores, can vary of course. Many top students at Ivies etc. do not take the most challenging level their first year, regardless of their AP scores and/or placement test results. Students have the option of taking a less difficult course than they are entitled to, and we have been surprised how many take that path.</p>
<p>Folks should also note that they don’t have to take an AP class to take an AP test. So, if the level of teaching at the local CC (or U) is better than the high school, you could take calc there , and still sign up for the AP calc (AB or BC as makes sense). The only tricky part might be scheduling since AP exams can overlap with university schedules.</p>
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<p>This is not true at the most selective engineering and science school. CalTech & MIT, for example, want to see 1 year of calculus. In college terms, that’s calculus BC. I’m sure they will still consider the applicants who only took Calculus AB, but these applicants would be at a disadvantage.</p>
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<p>Very true. In fact, there can also be a huge difference between State U and Top Private U. My son cruised to an easy A on Calc 1 at UMass. He is now taking Calc 2 at Harvard Extension, and he told me that Harvard is much harder than UMass. The UMass class is very straightforward and mechanical, but the Harvard class is more in depth and the questions are more complex. There were some Calc 1 techniques Harvard assumed that my son never learned at UMass. </p>
<p>Timing is also important. Unless the student is planning on continuing math beyond Calc 2, it is best that Calc 2 is taking in the spring to match the AP exam in May. Unless your kid is really math oriented and enjoy doing math in his/her spare time, a semester break before taking Calc BC AP test can be problematic, especially if the student will be overloaded with other classes & activities. My son will complete Calc 2 this semester, and we are thinking about taking Calc 3 (MV) in the spring to avoid a semester gap before the AP test.</p>
<p>My S took AP Calc BC his sophomore year and got a 5 on the exam, A’s in the class. Since S expressed interest in a college major in the math/science area, his calc teacher encouraged him to take a more rigorous route than the next class in the HS, which was AP Stats. Since S had already taken some summer classes with JHU CTY, he opted to take their higher online courses. The HS agreed, after reading the syllabus and understanding how JHU CTY grades the classes and transmits that information, that these classes could show on his transcript. So he took and did well on Linear Algebra last year, and is taking Multivariable Calculus this year. The JHY CTY math classes are no cake walk. The tests are, in my H’s opinion and he’s a math prof at USC who has taught these classes in the past, too long and rigorous than needed. Anyway, S survived it and his junior year.</p>
<p>My Calc 1 teacher at community college took test questions directly from AP tests. Experiences may vary, but the difficulty should generally be equal. I’d take it at the college just to be taught by a PhD, which won’t happen again until you take upper division electives.</p>
<p>If you are assuming that high school teachers don’t hold a PhD. you would be wrong. My wife teaches with several PhD’s at her formerly “at risk” public high school.</p>
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<p>If you are assuming that a significant proportion of high school teachers hold a PhD, you would be wrong. On average, high school teachers will hold at degree in something like “Math Education” or “History Education” and possibly have a Masters in “Math/Science Education.” At least at a community college, you can be pretty certain the instructor has a Masters in that subject. Top high school vs. community college is not battle, but run-of-the-mill high school vs. community college? I’d go to the community college.</p>
<p>To add to the discussion, many community college classes are far easier than AP Calc, particularly BC. In addition, the university has no way of knowing the college’s grading curve, even if the college is a traditional one like U of Mass. There is often significant grade inflation in many college classes, so that a B in a college class could mean anything, from a potential 2 in an AP test to a 5. I also second the poster who said that many colleges won’t accept credit from community or other colleges (for the above reasons).</p>
<p>My advice:
- No matter whether you decide to take your high school AP class or a college one, or do it online, take the AP exam, preferably BC if you are up to it. This will give the college admissions people a chance to see what your grade really means. (This holds for high school too; many high schools call it “AP” when it’s really not. If you get an A in your class, but a 2 on the test, this will sadly tell admissions that your class was a piece of cake.)
- If your high school is competitive and offers AP classes, you will absolutely need to explain why you took the college class. The reason is that competitive high schools often make that A very difficult to earn, so some students avoid the tough high school teacher and take the community college or college class, where there will be grade inflation in most cases. Then they say it ‘looks good.’ College admission officers are not stupid.<br>
- The only legitimate reasons I can think of for not taking your high school’s AP Calc class is a) you are already far beyond this (but take the AP test anyway) or b) you have some major scheduling conflict that the guidance counselor can verify. IN that case you shouldn’t have gym class or lunch, and c) your high school offers the class but it is not really AP–it’s not competitive and you know you won’t learn enough. Admissions officers know which schools these would be, so if you go to Bronx High School of Science and try to say your AP Calc class isn’t competitive enough, they’ll know it’s baloney.</p>
<p>PS For the poster who claims that a good high school teacher needs to hold a PhD and that therefore the student should take a community college class, well, I’d have to disagree – if the high school is a competitive one.</p>
<p>I myself am a high school teacher with an MFA who has taught AP Language and Literature (have taught college too). More importantly, many colleagues I know don’t hold a Masters or PhDs, but are remarkable AP teachers–they are just brilliant educators, have been highly trained in AP (there are workshops you go to and you can also sit on the scoring board). Whereas many community college teachers are untrained teachers and have little support. They may be fantastic - I’ve known many who are - but trust me, as a community college teacher myself, you are basically told “Teach,” given a syllabus, and that’s that. Don’t assume that just because someone holds a PhD,they’re a great teacher. Of course, you need content knowledge to be a good teacher, but most math teachers will have content knowledge for Calculus, which is pretty easy stuff.</p>
<p>However, if the school is noncompetitive or poorly funded and the teacher is not really teaching AP but merely an honors class (check the students’ average AP score in the school to gauge how effective the classes have been), then you should go to a community college or online. But you always need to take the AP exam.</p>