<p>I'm in Toronto, and I don't know if any other fellow Ontarians on here have heard, but Calculus might be cut out of the Grade 12 math curriculum because it's too hard, etc. Here is an article about this in one of my local school's newspapers: <a href="http://schools.tdsb.on.ca/jarvisci/jargonline/2006/News1.html%5B/url%5D">http://schools.tdsb.on.ca/jarvisci/jargonline/2006/News1.html</a></p>
<p>What do you think about this?</p>
<p>It's being cut out next year, this year is the last year that Calculus will be offered. Next year, they'll have an Advanced Functions course, followed by a Vectors and Geometry course... which means apparently they are taking out the Geometry and Discrete Math course. (thats what i heard)</p>
<p>Yea i heard about this too. Sucks for anyone who wants to study something math related, like engineering in the U.S.</p>
<p>Not that much of a surprise, given how weird (watered down how I've heard it described) Ontario's calculus program is...</p>
<p>they have a standardized curriculum? silly socialists</p>
<p>I'm not familiar with the Ontario school system, but does this mean that students aren't required to take calculus, or they don't even have the opportunity to take it?</p>
<p>
[quote]
they have a standardized curriculum? silly socialists
[/quote]
Haha! But even most US public schools offer Calculus! </p>
<p>Did Ontario even have AP Calc before this? Do they even offer APs in Canada?(excuse my ignorance, but I know next to nothing on Canadian education systems)</p>
<p>They offer AP's in Canada.
<a href="http://collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/exgrd_sum/2006.html%5B/url%5D">http://collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/exgrd_sum/2006.html</a></p>
<p>There is the Canadian Summary Report.
11,241 AP Tests were taken in Canada last May.
Around 3500 students took AP Calc exams.
Not as much as America, but a lot.</p>
<p>ontario used to be a five-year high school jurisdiction (i.e. grade 9-13). i'm not making this up. the five year thing was cancelled very recently (like 2002 or something).</p>
<p>even back in the days of 5-year high school, i think we were really only taught what most other jurisdictions learn in 4 years.</p>
<p>I tried googling it and found this:
<a href="http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2006/02/16/c3581.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html%5B/url%5D">http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2006/02/16/c3581.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html</a></p>
<p>At least it's under "extended review"
Can't you just skip a lot of geometry? Maybe that'll help. I mean, I didn't reallly learn it in depth. My friend told me it was because nowadays you can just make a computer do it. So the advanced stuff is mostly obselete, according to him. I really don't know about the Canadian highschool system but maybe it's because of mathematics in middle school? Because I remember I started algebra in middle school, and the teachers had no problem keeping the class from falling behind. Of course, not everybody takes Calculus but everybody who actually studied was ready for it, if they wanted to take it.</p>
<p>Holy crap.........I never thought I'd see the day!!</p>
<p>I was a part of the 5 year high school system in Ontario .... and let me tell you grade 13 (OAC's) [for the American people on this board it stands for Ontario Academic Credits, and it was similar to the AP courses] was crucial to university studies.</p>
<p>I felt grade 13 could have been more in-depth than it was........but for them to remove grade 13 a few years ago and now to cut those courses........man.......these kids are going to be at a HUGE disadvantage in university. They wont know a thing, and they will struggle in their university studies.</p>
<p>I have no idea how universities will deal with this. Calculus and all the maths are requirements for admission in almost all programs. This is a very disturbing trend........i think they want to dumb-down the kids.</p>
<p>I thought it was still going to be offered, just as an optional course right?</p>
<p>I've looked into it a bit more........</p>
<p>And it appears that two years ago they were considering keeping it as an optional course, but decided to completely eliminate it (along with other math courses and content).</p>
<p>They felt that universities would have more time to teach it properly, and that they would be able to focus on important points. </p>
<p>But several groups and teacher federations felt this was a really bad idea (since 1st year courses are so large that students wouldnt be able to get any one-on-one help if needed). They also noted that this was a push towards privatization in schools, because private schools offered advanced mathematics far beyond any public school does, and it does so at an earlier grade. So they felt it left Ontario public schools far behind private schools and also behind the public schools from other provinces.</p>
<p>Now, apparently, the Ministry is also considering eliminating (or cutting down the material) in several other courses such as chemistry, physics, biology, history............but increasing content in english and the arts.</p>
<p>
[quote]
At least it's under "extended review"
I really don't know about the Canadian highschool system but maybe it's because of mathematics in middle school?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>FYI, in Canada, education is a provincial jurisdiction. Each province has a different system (with lots of variation).</p>
<p>Yeah, in the US, the typical curriculum goes up to trig. You don't take calc unless you're in an advanced track (at least in most publics).</p>
<p>Yea at my HS (public, near Philadelphia) there were, like, 5 tracks for math</p>
<p>double accelerated: all algebra taught in middle school; 9th - Geometry, 10th - Trig/Precalc, 11th - Calc1, 12th- Calc2
accelerated: 9th - Alg2, 10th - Geometry, 11th: Trig/Precalc, 12th - Calc1
normal 9th - Alg1, 10th - Geometry, 11th - Alg2, 12th - Trig
track 3 9th - Pre Alg, 10th - Geometry, 11th - Alg 1, 12th - Alg2
track 4 9th - I don't even know what to call it, 10th - Pre Alg, 11th - Geometry, 12th - Alg1</p>
<p>So everyone is supposed to graduate with Algebra 1, hopefully Alg 2, and possibly Trig/Precalc. But a lot of my friends in the lower tracks "passed" with Ds so they really didn't learn it and have to take remedial classes at college anyways.</p>
<p>imo, calculus should still be offered. instead, standards should be raised in the lower grades. </p>
<p>i used to go to school in ontario up until eighth grade, until i moved to the US. i was stunned at how much harder the US curriculum was, as i had to play catchup for a year and a half. the amount of homework was like triple in US eighth grade compared to Canadian 7th. </p>
<p>i never went to hs in canada, so i dont know how course selections work. nevertheless, calculus should still be an option for advanced students. those who dont have that strong foundation can opt for an easier course.</p>
<p>As a student in a private IB school in Ontario, I'm feeling very glad right now that I'm not in public school.</p>
<p>Not that this phenomenon is confined to the public system. For example, a prominent girls' school near mine is also dropping calculus. It has its own well-thought-out reasons, supposedly, but it appears that the actual reason is that the students do too badly at calculus.</p>
<p>It's a shame, and I don't udnerstand why this trend has started in Ontario. We need more rigorous, not less rigorous education.</p>
<p>They had this huge conference last spring where university professors, high school teachers, and other educators debated about whether to drop the course or not. My math teacher was actually on the committee, and she said that most of the professors were for dropping the course, with the reason being students are not ready to take it in Gr.12. So the tentative settlement was to keep it for one more year, then drop it.</p>
<p>And yes, Canada does offer AP calc, but you have to remember that there are only a limited number of schools that offer AP courses in Canada - and out of those schools, some schools don't have AP Calc. (It's funny - my school is located in the poorest electoral riding in the country, by Elections Canada stats, yet we offer the biggest number of AP courses in all public schools in Ontario.)</p>
<p>Personally I think it's foolish to drop the calc course, because it's incredibly easy. I was stuck in that class for 1 week (due to timetable conflicts) and was so bored that the teacher advised me to switch to AP calc (with the sacrifice of dropping another beloved course). The Ontario curriculum is already behind in comparison to the American ones, and for those students wanting to apply to the US, they'll be very much screwed. </p>
<p>Plus, I don't see how it will be easier to learn a course in university than learning it in highschool - because in highschool, the teachers go a lot more in-depth with the material, and you can always go see them for extra help. Not to mention the faster pace in university as well. Someone care to enlighten me?</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Yea, i agree calculus should still be in Ontario high schools, it's hard enough to learn calculus in high school in a class with less than 30 ppl compared to a first year university class where the class sizes can be anywhere from 100-1000 in Canada. At my high school, even the smartest and most hard workingkids are getting like 6% in calculus!!!! So imagine if they had to learn it in university. Now don't get me wrong, i don't go to a crappy high school or anything, my school has sent many ppl to good universities on full scholarships, and last year we graduated some kid wit a 99 average, and we're public too.</p>
<p>Also having been through an American HS and now in a Canadian high school the curriculum is pretty much the same to me, Canadian being a little bit harder, but i'm a social science n humanities guy so i dunno much about the differences in the math curriculum. However Ontario needs to step it's math curriculum, they even contemplated, dumbing down GRADE 9 math so that MORE PPL WOULD PASS!!!!!! I'm sorry, and someone might report me for this, but if you can't pass the applied level (easiest level) GRADE 9 Math Course!!!!! YOU DON'T DESERVE TO GRADUATE AND YOU WON'T HAVE THE BASIC MATH SKILLS TO GO ANYWHERE IN LIFE!!!!</p>