<p>“Many excellent state universities have caps on the percentage of OOS students they accept.”</p>
<p>Many states never had to deal with the long-range effects of Prop. 13, although people in my state keep putting similar measures on the ballot. And my state isn’t starting with anything like what the UC system was, which was a model for and the envy of much of the world. I have never lived in California and find the whole thing incredibly sad.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Admission</a> Requirements](<a href=“Admissions Requirements - Berkeley Graduate Division”>Admissions Requirements - Berkeley Graduate Division)</p>
<p>It looks like UC Berkeley lower the language proficiency requirement to attract foreign graduate students. I am surprised that the mimimum TOEFL iBT score is only 68 for graduate students. Most selective undergraduate institutions require at least 95 or 100 on TOEFL iBT. Even some private high schools require a miminum of 100.</p>
<p>“My daughter has told me of several incidents involving groups of International Asians that I find disturbing, such as groups of girls walking side by side with arms locked, completely blocking the entire sidewalk, forcing other students to step off the sidewalk into the street. Or taking up entire seating areas in the dining halls and the library, blocking others from using empty seats. Same thing in lecture halls, they will block the entrance to the rows, even if there are empty seats. Some are quite rude, talking loudly amongst themselves during class and in the library.”</p>
<p>Just don’t let her post a video on YouTube about this. remember “Ching Chong ling long ting tong”?
[UCLA</a> Student racist rant on Asians in the Library for phoning Tsunami victims in Japan - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>
<p>NerdyAsianKid – UCLA engineering (which has separate admissions from UCLA L&S) looks at rigor of curriculum, grades in UC a-g core (especially math and science courses), and a test score metric which calculated from a combination of SAT or ACT and the SATII-math. Beyond that, they look at holistic factors as a tie-breaker.</p>
<p>Is there another state university system that gives as much financial aid as the UC system? Nearly 2/3 of undergrads receive FA; the average award is $14K. [University</a> of California - Financial aid](<a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/paying-for-uc/financial-aid/index.html]University”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/paying-for-uc/financial-aid/index.html)</p>
<p>Making higher ed affordable for your own is laudable; but it does mean you have to figure out ways to pay for it.</p>
<p>To squeeze more money out of the 2015 class, UC-Berkeley did at least three things:</p>
<p>1 - Increased tuition revenue by boosting int’l and OOS enrollment,
2 - Increased tuition revenue by raising tuition 17.6% (planned 8% increase supplemented by emergency summer increase of an additional 9.6%), and
3 - Decreased the provision of educational services and thereby increased tuition revenue by advising incoming freshmen to budget for five years in case required courses were unavailable as needed. </p>
<p>In spite of the two fairly significant economic disincentives, it looks like Cal met their 2015 target of achieving a record high 35% non-resident enrollment, of which 14% are international and 21% are OOS. </p>
<p>Pertinent to the subject Bloomberg article, the current freshmen are 49% domestic Asian (from both CA and OOS) before international students are accounted for. If one views 35% as a likely ceiling on non-residents, how much demographic variance from this 2015 class can reasonably be expected in future classes?</p>
<p>See the Class of 2015 data profile with student survey responses (very interesting) at <a href=“http://opa.berkeley.edu/surveys/2011ProfileNewBerkeleyUndergraduates.pdf[/url]”>http://opa.berkeley.edu/surveys/2011ProfileNewBerkeleyUndergraduates.pdf</a> and historical supporting data table at [UC</a> Berkeley Enrollment Data](<a href=“http://opa.berkeley.edu/statistics/enrollmentData.html]UC”>UC Berkeley Fall Enrollment Data for New Undergraduates | Office of Planning and Analysis)</p>
<p>People who like numbers might be interested in looking at the changes in the admissions number for California Resident Freshman Applicants at the UC system from 2009 to 2011.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2011/fall_2011_admissions_table_3.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2011/fall_2011_admissions_table_3.pdf</a></p>
<p>The article quoted by the OP brought up the example of UC San Diego. Interestingly enough, should we wonder what an article focusing on UCLA or the entire system might have revealed? </p>
<p>At UCLA, Asian Americans jumped UP from 4,240 to 4,900 from 2009 to 2011. Their percentage of total admits went from 43.0% to 44.9%. </p>
<p>At Cal, they fared worse as the number went from 4,549 to 4,096. However, the percentage of the total pool still increased from 40.7% to 44.0%. How is that possible? The fact that White students lost more than 1,000 admissions played a role. The numbers went from 3,968 to 2,914 in 2011. </p>
<p>University wide, the total admissions went from 58,631 to 59,288 in 2011. Asian American increased from 20,451 to 21,316 and represented 36.0% of all admitted students. White applicants decreased from 20,138 to 18,123, and their percentage from 34.3% to 30.6%. </p>
<p>In general terms, while it is accurate that Asians lost “ground” in San Diego, the biggest changes is that schools such as Santa Barbara or Davis absorbed more Asians than before. On a percentage basis, American Asians did better in 2011 than in 2009. </p>
<p>A mulligan for that quoted journalist? After all, this is the holiday season.</p>
<p>Are the full pay foreigners subsidizing the locals? If so, isn’t that good? Isn’t it a bit like them buying US goods at a higher price so that the profits can be used to discount the product for the locals? Even if this isn’t the case, this is still a whole lot better than a non-citizen getting discounted tuition while the citizen pays higher, isn’t it?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That argument would be more potent if the “full pay” were to represent an amount superior to the cost of providing the education. </p>
<p>Haven’t we be led to believe that the fees paid by students do NOT cover the expenses? Haven’t we read that full pay students are still subsidized, and that schools need donations, endowments, or public dollars to simply balance the books. </p>
<p>Having “full pay” foreigners to reduce the growth of the deficit without reversing the DEFICIT trends might not be the best medicine for an education system that will NOT outgrow its systemic financial mismanagement. </p>
<p>The problems are on the spending side!</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>For private schools perhaps.</p>
<p>But for public schools, I think that OOS = full pay.</p>
<p>What if a CA resident was willing to pay the OOS rate to secure a spot at UC rather than pay the same amount to a private school? Shouldn’t they at least be offered the right of first refusal before the seats are given to foreigners?</p>
<p>Californians do have a problem - for decades, they’ve said “yes” to absolutely everything, without restraint. And especially, and most enthusiastically, “yes” to ever-growing mountains of debt. This was inevitable, and unfortunately CA residents ain’t seen nothin yet.</p>
<p>It would really suck to be a fiscally prudent individual living in CA. Even though there are relatively few such people percentage-wise, the state’s large population implies that there still must be plenty of these victims.</p>
<p>As a “fiscally prudent” California resident I am doing the same as many folks we know: sending our well rounded honor students to strong out of state public universities. The cost is relatively the same and in many cases substantially lower, and there is more certainty in what next year’s tuition is going to be. I think we will see a fascinating dynamic throughout the west as strong entrepreneurial California students migrate to other states. Almost a reverse gold rush. </p>
<p>As a UC graduate, sure it would have been nice if they could go there, but I think they have had and will have a great and more well rounded experience out of state.</p>
<p>This isn’t about California, but does provide some support for the idea that there has been grade inflation at the high school level.</p>
<p>[Investigating</a> Grade Inflation and Non-Equivalence (2009 AERA)](<a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/cb/aera/gradeinflation]Investigating”>http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/cb/aera/gradeinflation)</p>
<p>Thanks. I hadn’t seen that but at least on my PDA it doesn’t look all that convincing to me. Actually, I’m having a hard time figuring out the conclusion. Best I can see is a GPA increase from 2.6 to 2.8 over a period of several years. I’ll take a look when I get on my computer.</p>
<p>BTW I have seen a similar study showing grade inflation when referenced against the ACT but it was primarily at lowee GPA levels and certainly not proof of the “massive grade inflation” at the top end in public schools which is the.claim I generally read.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Precisely. I was going to post that. Thanks for doing it instead, blue.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>First, thanks for posting this. I had not seen this and it apears to be new since much of the data says it is still being analyzed.
It does appear to show grade inflation over the decade from 1996 to 2006 and it is benchmarked against the SAT which is a reasonable methodology. So yes, according to this there has been grade inflation.</p>
<p>However, much like the other study I am familiar with, the vast majority of “time based” inflation is at very low SAT levels, which to me is more evidence of the phenomenon of “social promotion” than the type of grade inflation generally refetrnced here on CC. As the SAT scores approach 700 the GPA graphs for the different time periods converge and the differences become much less significant.</p>
<p>THe AP data is actually more interesting, and more applicable to the other type of “grade inflation” people reference here on CC - which is not time based grade inflation, but rather, “this high school has grade inflation and this high school doesn’t.” This data does indeed seem to show some radically different grading criteria for AP courses within the small sample of high schools chosen. Some schools do appear to be giving high grades to students who don’t perform well on the AP exams. This seems of some value. I’d be curious to see if this is being done in lower performing schools where students are being forced into AP programs where they don’t really belong, or in higher performing schools where students just expect As. Or if it is equally distributed.</p>
<p>However, it does not mean you can just look at some school’s overall GPA and assume off the bat that it is inflated merely because it is high without benchmarking it to something. And then, even the benchmark is open to criticism.</p>
<p>bovertine – part of the problem with using the SAT to calibrate grade inflation (or anything else) at the top end (scores >700) is that the SAT has almost no sensitivity at those levels. The SAT is normalized to have lots of sensitivity in the mid-ranges, but not so much at the extrema. It is very good at discriminating between 500~550. But the difference between 750 and 800 is just a couple of questions.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I know.
To quote myself:
</p>
<p>I’m no big fan of using the SAT (SAT I especially). I just believe you have to use something to calibrate/normalize/benchmark the grade inflation.Maybe some conglomeration of all sorts of tests.</p>
<p>Just because grades get higher over time doesn’t mean anything to me. The kids could just be getting smarter, or more studious, or the demographic could be changing at the schools. Ditto comparing school to school. I would expect the matriculating class to MIT to have higher math grades than the typical high school student.</p>
<p>Regardless, the .2 or so GPA increase over a decade seems reasonably true to me, but doesn’t cause me despair about the meaninglessness of grades.</p>
<p>I like comparing these two things -</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/ED099731.pdf[/url]”>http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/ED099731.pdf</a>
<a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/Total_Group_Report.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board;
<p>They also indicate some grade inflation (self reported data) among the kids taking the SAT from 1973 to 2008. Average around 2.8 (1973) to 3.3 (2008).</p>
<p>So I’m not disputing some inflation.</p>
<p>mihcal - a bit parochial, but you might find this interesting-
<a href=“http://studentresearch.ucsd.edu/sriweb/twodecadesofchange2007.pdf[/url]”>http://studentresearch.ucsd.edu/sriweb/twodecadesofchange2007.pdf</a></p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>There are a couple of other issues of using SAT/ACT scores over time to measure grade inflation.<br>