California Court blocks state high school exit exam

Parent Cafe
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<p>I don't know if mini was being facetious in posts 48 and 50, but I've studied the situation in our public schools for over two years now because of various aspects of it which have shocked and horrified me. I really have come to somewhat the same conclusion. I think a certain segment of society is being raised to be happy and content with the lot in life they will have been granted by our government for the benefit of the U.S. economy. </p>

<p>I know it sounds crazy and paranoid, but I almost can't come to any other conclusion. In the meantime, education is big business (however, with no accountability) for millions of people. It just goes round and round and round - continuing to be one of the major jobs programs in this country. To focus on exit exams takes the emphasis away from where it should be - individual learning in the classroom. The entire system is a disgrace. I've grown so disgusted with it I can hardly stand to think about it anymore...</p>

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<p>HH--
The only problem with your theory (and Mini's) is that the public schools (and the school boards) are controlled by labor unions, not the government. The exit exams were to have forced the system to change by drawing attention to the conveyor belt.</p>

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<p>Mini, in case I was not clear before, my kids go to the <em>very same schools</em> with a huge number of Latino and poor kids. It isn't a 50% district, it is a 50% school. </p>

<p>So the struggling kids are in the very same school with the white kids, and many of the same classes (though very poor representation in gifted classes, due to aforementioned BAD START with bilingual K-6 and subsequent LOW EXPECTATIONS with social promotion.) </p>

<p>The same teachers, the same class sizes, at least in my town. Even the bougainvilla! ;) </p>

<p>I completely agree the system needs fixing, the education should be first rate and with high standards for all from the first moment.</p>

<p>The unmentionable and politically incorrect truth is that not every subset of our population has a culture that emphasizes education. No all kids come prepared to learn. No all families support their kids (and some can afford to.) It has been wrong to throw up our hands in despair and pass kids who aren't learning. This exit exam is "step one" and the hue and cry that will result from lots of kids not passing it has already spurred steps two, three, etc. at many schools.</p>

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<p>What SBmom says is true, but it is also true that when someone tries to change the system in CA, as happened last October-November, we get threads like this that illustrate why things never change: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=103211%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=103211&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You don't have to read the whole thing--just skim the first page.</p>

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<p>I swear I typed "not" twice above, rather than "no". Weird.</p>

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<p>And which party will ever have the nerve to disband the NEA? Neither, of course. Education is big business in and of itself. It doesn't have to have anything to do with actually educating the entire population. As long as most of the people involved THINK they are educating any segment other than the top 20-30%, everything will move along as planned.</p>

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<p>driver: >>> A blast from the past--Unions defeat education proposals in CA <<<</p>

<p>The CTA and its parent, the NEA, are too powerful in California for any meaningful reforms to pass. </p>

<p>Do y'all remember when Gov Wilson tried to change the age for Kindergarten admission from Dec to Sept 1???? The union ran that commercial which showed a little kid with his fingers poking thru a chain link fence that surrounded a school. There was a voice over which said something like: Governor Wilson doesn't want little Johnny to go to kindergarten because his birthday is XXXXX (some day after Sept 1). Please call Sacramento and tell Gov Wilson to let Johnny go to school."</p>

<p>So that is why California is one of the few states (may be the only one) that allows kindergarteners to start school as long as they turn 5 by Dec 2nd (I think the date is Dec 2.... it has been awhile since that has been an issue for me!) Many/most states require K students to turn 5 by June 1, July 1 or Sept 1.</p>

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<p>The NEA is not a gov't agency so it can't be "disbanded". Republican candidates get very little money from teachers unions (compared to the whopping contributions that Dem candidates receive) so the GOP would love for the NEA to "go away" -- the GOP just doesn't have the power to make that happen.</p>

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<p>I'm sorry, I meant the Department of Education. I don't really know much about labor unions, but I would not necessarily assume that the real powers in the GOP care that it exists. But as I said, I really didn't intend to get dragged into this and I try not to think about it if I can. It's too depressing :(</p>

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<p>Here's another Californian who is not.</p>

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<p>Have you actually seen the California Exit Exam with your own two eyes?<br>
What are you basing "most basic (lowered) standards" on?</p>

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<p>weav: </p>

<p>Yes, I've seen questions that are asked. Many sample questions are on the website of the CA Dept of Education. </p>

<p>By the way, the kids only have to get about half the questions right in order to pass -- and the kids do not have to pass both sections in one sitting.</p>

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<p>So..... to those who think diplomas should still be passed out...</p>

<p>IF it is "too much" to expect students to demonstrate 7th - 10th grade competency in basic skills in order to receive a high school (12th grade!) diploma, is there ANY grade level that you would insist that would need to be met????</p>

<p>So.... what would that minimum level be????</p>

<p>6th grade? (If you can document that "bullets fly" in your school zone.)</p>

<p>4th grade? (If you have only been in the US for 10 years or less)</p>

<p>3rd grade? (If you have only been in the US for 6 years or less)</p>

<p>1st grade? (If you have only been in the US during your high school years)</p>

<p>Lower? (this is getting too foolish to continue...)</p>

<p>What minimum grade level of competency in math & writing should a high school graduate have in California (or anywhere, for that matter?)</p>

<p>....Don't forget that the kids can miss about half the problems and still pass this standardized test. That means that the kids can miss all or nearly all of the questions that are 10th grade level and still pass!!!</p>

<p>So what grade level of questions should be asked and which students should be able to pass to receive a 12th grade diploma???</p>

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<p>IF it is "too much" to expect students to demonstrate 7th - 10th grade competency in basic skills in order to receive a high school (12th grade!) diploma, is there ANY grade level that you would insist that would need to be met????
I will answer a couple but I have to go to the gym
first I don't know if we can agree on what would be a 10th gd or 12th gd level, but I read that most reading material is written for an 8th grade level so I think a test that indicates they can write a resume, an essay, and read your average book ( whats John Grisham a 6th gd reading level?)
My grandfather only had an 8th gd education and from the looks of it- 8th gd nowdays is about what 5th gd used to be, but if we could bring 8th gd back up then I would go with everyone having a minimum of 8th gd-9th gd education which is about what you need to pass the GED I believe</p>

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<p>Emeraldkity:</p>

<p>Thanks for your response. I know that you will add to it later. </p>

<p>I just want those who support giving diplomas to those who can't answer a little more than HALF the questions on a test that has 7th - 10th grade level questions to please state how low of grade level proficiency would they award a High school diploma. </p>

<p>If these people are thinking that a person should be given a 12th grade diploma when they can only demonstrate a 6th grade (or lower) proficiency, then why not give the high school diploma out at the 6th grade graduation from elementary school?</p>

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<p><<<< Jlauer, I am a LIBERAL and I am here to be your cavalry!!!
First, a sidebar agreement with an earlier point: I deplore the lack of good vocational classes for kids who are just plain not academically inclined; that option should exist to serve all kids. I also think there needs to be room for a severly LD kid to acquire a different set of skills and to be mainstreamed as much as possible. Perhaps even an oral exam ought to exist for a kid who is dyslexic but can learn, function, and deserves to move on-- So I agree that certain exceptions ought to exist. <<< </p>

<p>I totally agree with the need for vocational classes for those who are less academically inclined (and have stated such on an earlier thread when some people were trying to make the case that every HS grad should have to pass Algebra II (I disagreed with that req't.)</p>

<p>I agree that there needs to be special accomodations for the LD -- I believe that those accomodations may already exist -- altho I only briefly looked over the part of the CA DOE website which covers that issue.</p>

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<p>I have looked at the questions for the English section of the exit exam, including sentence structure, level of vocabulary, and the type of questions asked -- and while I think it is appropriate for native English speakers, I think that it requires an unreasonably high level of fluency for non-native speakers, especially those students who may only have lived in the US for a few years. This is not the same as the task of "learning English" -- as I have said before, many highly educated immigrants that I know simply do not ever gain a level of fluency that would enable them to pass a test like that, without the aid of a dictionary. </p>

<p>I think a foreign-born student should be expected to pass a test geared for non-native speakers -- that means that at the very least, they should have the opportunity to consult a dictionary during the test and extended time, perhaps allowing them to complete the test over more than one session. (Use of a dictionary is specifically prohibited in the current test administrations). </p>

<p>Here's an example, taken from sample questions provided to students. The first sentence of the first reading excerpt is as follows:
[quote]
"Falconry, an ancient sport popular in the days of medieval royalty and jousting tournaments, is still practiced by dedicated enthusiasts around the world."

[/quote]
I don't think that an individual who had lived in the US only a few years would have been exposed to words like falconry or jousting, which certainly are not common to 21st century communications. </p>

<p>This simply is not a fair test. I could go on - just about every part of the test contains vocabulary that simply would not likely be known to non-native speakers.</p>

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<p><<<<< IT IS MADNESS to call the end of social promotion discriminatory against Latino/poor kids. MADNESS. That is, unless we want to reclassify HS as day-care for older kids who aren't yet quite old enough to go to work as dishwashers and maids. <<<<<<<<</p>

<p>That is a great point. If we don't expect the "non honors" and "non AP" students to really learn anything then we might as well ask Kindercare to extend their franchises to include high school daycare and have the state pay for these kids' care.</p>

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<p>At least the school is trying to think "outside the box" and come up with ideas on how to help these kids. I think if the kid is an "english learner" then that kid should do sort of a "gap year" and during that time the kid goes to a class thats main purpose is to present an intensely English immersion program (speaking and writing English words). An appropriate level Math class could also be taught, but not much more. Just for one year. After one year of this intense program, a child should be fluent (My Chinese sister in law entered an all-day K class without any knowledge of English yet she was fluent by Christmas because that was all that she heard all day.)</p>

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<p>I think that those who are advocating for giving out these diplomas are well-intentioned but just a bit short-sighted. They may be thinking that it is just too "mean" not to give these kids a diploma. Why not advocate one more year of High School for these kids and during that time those kids can concentrate on one or both areas of the test that they can't pass. Or, for future classes.... between Soph and Jr year OR between Jr and Sr year offer an intense summer school class to work on their weak areas. (I used to teach such a class).</p>

<p>P.S. Thanks for being my calvary. BTW.... I just don't think that this is (or should be) a conservative vs liberal issue. EVERYONE should want an educated society since democracies are more successful when people are educated.</p>

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<p>Calmom</p>

<p>I understand your concern about those words. But, please remember, the kids can miss nearly half of the questions and still pass. It would seem to me that a kid can miss all of those questions with "difficult words" and still pass the test since most questions won't have those "unusual" words.</p>

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<p>Jlaur, that was the first sentence of the first reading excerpt. Given the topic, I can assure you that the next sentence contained more --it was probably around a 500-word article, followed by questions. I doubt that many ESL students would ever get past that -- that is, they'd run out of time. Other examples I have seen are just as bad: perfectly appropriate for an American-born student, but a big initial hurdle for an ESL learner. </p>

<p>The problem could be resolved by providing some alternative avenues of assessment for special circumstances. Court action has already compelled California to allow appropriate accommodations or alternative forms of assessment for students with documented learning disabilities. It is unfortunate that this has to be compelled by the courts - certainly given the demographics of California public schools it is something that could have been anticipated.</p>